Kosovo KOSOVO 2024 - not taking part

[ESC United Mod Team]

 

[A-lister]

A little region called Catalonia.

Yeah, and like I said this isn't a vote on EU or NATO membership, so not sure if Spain would make such a big fuss about it... also they're not the only country not recognizing Kosovo that takes part, but then again I think some exaggerate the effects it could have but I dunno.

 

[Mainshow]

LET. THEM. IN!!!!!!

I need two FIKs in my life right now!

 

[A-lister]

LET. THEM. IN!!!!!!

I need two FIKs in my life right now!

The funny thing is I can see a sort of Greece/Cyprus scenario where Kosovo would be the little sibling sending the more commercially modern stuff and the older one being a bit lost so I don't think Kosovo would deliver something like FIK but rather send us the Elvans Gjata bops that Albanian FIK overlooks in favoring of their more conservative entries.

 

[MopManMoss]

LET. THEM. IN!!!!!!

I need two FIKs in my life right now!

You let Kosovo in about 8 countries will pull out its not worth it

 

[A-lister]

You let Kosovo in about 8 countries will pull out its not worth it

The only one that could pull out is Serbia, let's stop with the fear mongoring lol

This is not an EU or NATO membership deal, I doubt countries like Spain will pull out from a music competition just because Kosovo would enter (even if Spain as a state doesn't politically recognize them). I mean Kosovo already competes in other stuff and none of these countries pulled out, not even Serbia.

 

[EscGeek]

I want Kosovo in too, but not at the expense of Serbia withdrawing

 

[MopManMoss]

The only one that could pull out is Serbia, let's stop with the fear mongoring lol

This is not an EU or NATO membership deal, I doubt countries like Spain will pull out from a music competition just because Kosovo would enter (even if Spain as a state doesn't politically recognize them). I mean Kosovo already competes in other stuff and none of these countries pulled out, not even Serbia.

I mean that is not true though plenty of countries with credible secessionist movements would absolutely not sign off on Kosovo's entrance to Eurovision because it would cause too many domestic issues to do anything that even vaguely resembles parallel situations to the ones they may have abroad, Kosovan admission is pandoras box

 

[HarryUK]

I'd love for this to happen as much as the next person but Spain will more than likely withdraw (taking their big 5 money with them) and even countries like the UK may cast doubt (despite Scotland already having had a referendum and voting to stay in the UK)

 

[MopManMoss]

I'd love for this to happen as much as the next person but Spain will more than likely withdraw (taking their big 5 money with them) and even countries like the UK may cast doubt (despite Scotland already having had a referendum and voting to stay in the UK)

The UK recognises Kosovo and support for Scottish Independence has massively diminished

 

[HarryUK]

The UK recognises Kosovo and support for Scottish Independence has massively diminished

Excellent to hear

 

[Mainshow]

Looking at currently active ESC participants, only , , , , , and don't recognise Kosovo as an independent country and I genuinely can't see and boycotting Eurovision because of it.

has been quite lukewarm towards Kosovo but they accepted their membership/participation in other European sectors such as the European Bank... when it came to the European Council, abstained the vote (and didn't vote against a membership for Kosovo). Thus, I don't think that or would be withdrawing either.

wouldn't boycott Eurovision, either - they took part in JESC when Wales competed and as a Big 5 country they may have a huge say in EBU-related issues but they also "survived" a fooball match against them.

might be withdrawing after letting Kosovo in - but I honestly believe that they would be coming back soon/the year afterwards... What's the point of boycotting a singing competition when you're not boycotting other events in which Kosovo actively takes place?

All I wanted to say is that the "8 countries would be boycotting ESC" is not true - in my opinion, I don't think it's really happening and tbh, it should have only been an issue for former Yugoslavian countries and apart from , all active/participating countries are in favor of letting them in.

 

[MopManMoss]

wouldn't boycott Eurovision, either - they took part in JESC when Wales competed and as a Big 5 country they may have a huge say in EBU-related issues but they also "survived" a fooball match against them.

Wales isn't a nation claiming sovereignty against the country its widely recognised to be a part of so I'm not really sure why you're bringing it up

Countries with border disputes are obviously going to take issue with the admission of Kosovo ( ) and its naive to think otherwise


Geopolitics aside Kosovo doesn't even meet the requirements for admission so speculation is frankly pointless

 

[Mainshow]

Wales isn't a nation claiming sovereignty against the country its widely recognised to be a part of so I'm not really sure why you're bringing it up

Countries with border disputes are obviously going to take issue with the admission of Kosovo ( ) and its naive to think otherwise


Geopolitics aside Kosovo doesn't even meet the requirements for admission so speculation is frankly pointless

I brought it up because Spain doesn't recognise "Wales" as a country but it was still fine with competing against it in a singing competition in which "counries compete against each other". Thus, I don't see the harm of letting entities compete in the adult version of the contest - especially since Kosovo is already taking part in sport events (and has taken part in other Eurovision-related competitions before).

Kosovo doesn't meet the requirements because very few countries didn't let them join EBU - it's not like they don't want to be part of it.

They all let Montenegro in - Turkey let allow Cyprus compete in Istanbul 2004 - even though Turkey doesn't recognise the Cypriot state or its government.... it's really not a big deal.
One country might be bitter about it but eventually, all will deal with it/come around sooner or later.

Israel, for example, which voted against Kosovo joining the EBU back in 2019, officially recognised the country in the following year and Kosovo opened its Embassy in Jerusalem as well.

Also, I have no idea why countries such as Algeria or Tunisia who have never participated were able to vote against Kosovo joining Eurovision and let's not forget that two other countries which haven't recognised Kosovo yet - BelaruZ and RuZZia - are not taking part, either (the latter is not even part of the EBU anymore).

Thus, such voting would probably have a very different result in 2023 (compared to the one in 2019).

 

[Marcos C]

I brought it up because Spain doesn't recognise "Wales" as a country but it was still fine with competing against it in a singing competition in which "counries compete against each other". Thus, I don't see the harm of letting entities compete in the adult version of the contest - especially since Kosovo is already taking part in sport events (and has taken part in other Eurovision-related competitions before).

Remember that Wales was able to compete in JESC only because the United Kingdom as a whole wasn't competing during those two years (2018 and 2019).

 

[Mainshow]

Remember that Wales was able to compete in JESC only because the United Kingdom as a whole wasn't competing during those two years (2018 and 2019).

Yeah, that's right.

I brought it up to emphasise the fact that Spain is not against competing "entities" in international competition (based on their point of view).

Btw, even in 2022, Kosovo was able to take part at the 2022 World Athletics Indoor Championships in Serbia's capital - their flag wasn't shown, though.
Thus, the very few Eurovision participants not recognising Kosovo, may want to blank their flag on their very own broadcasts and call it a day?

 

[Mainshow]

Also, it's very important to point out that the EBU themselves recognises/treat Kosovo has an independent country.

On 25th May, 2023, they announced that Kosovo was one of the countries attracting the most votes regarding the "Rest of the World" votes:

Outside the participating countries, viewers in the United States, Canada, Kosovo, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Mexico, Hungary, Slovakia, UAE, Türkiye, and Chile cast the most votes online.

Eurovision Song Contest 2023 reaches 162 million viewers with record breaking online engagement and musical impact

The 67th Eurovision Song Contest (ESC) hosted by the BBC in Liverpool, on behalf of Ukraine, united audiences across the world on both linear and online platforms.

www.ebu.ch

 

[MopManMoss]

I brought it up because Spain doesn't recognise "Wales" as a country but it was still fine with competing against it in a singing competition in which "counries compete against each other". Thus, I don't see the harm of letting entities compete in the adult version of the contest - especially since Kosovo is already taking part in sport events (and has taken part in other Eurovision-related competitions before).

Kosovo doesn't meet the requirements because very few countries didn't let them join EBU - it's not like they don't want to be part of it.

They all let Montenegro in - Turkey let allow Cyprus compete in Istanbul 2004 - even though Turkey doesn't recognise the Cypriot state or its government.... it's really not a big deal.
One country might be bitter about it but eventually, all will deal with it/come around sooner or later.

Israel, for example, which voted against Kosovo joining the EBU back in 2019, officially recognised the country in the following year and Kosovo opened its Embassy in Jerusalem as well.

Also, I have no idea why countries such as Algeria or Tunisia who have never participated were able to vote against Kosovo joining Eurovision and let's not forget that two other countries which haven't recognised Kosovo yet - BelaruZ and RuZZia - are not taking part, either (the latter is not even part of the EBU anymore).

Thus, such voting would probably have a very different result in 2023 (compared to the one in 2019).

Spain is right to not recognise Wales as a country because it isn't it is part of the country of the United Kingdom despite clearly having a unique language and culture, Wales in law is a region of a country like Bavaria or Wallonia.

Wanting to be apart of something is not good enough justification for admission, I recognise Kosovo as an individual as do the vast majority of EBU members but that doesnt change the fact that several do not. De jure recognition matters whether we like it or not.

Algeria and Tunisia are able to vote against Kosovo being admitted to the EBU despite having never participated in Eurovision because the European Broadcasting Union is about a hell of a lot more than just our beloved contest .

This is not just about the grievances of Serbia, a multitude of countries will have issues with Kosovo having any recognition.
The EBU as an organisation's stance on whether or not Kosovo is a sovereign nation is irrelevant to the internal politics of its member nations.

 

[Mainshow]

"Wales" is a country that is part of the United Kingdom. Thus, it's not like "Bavaria" (which is a federal state of Germany).

Anyway, my point remains the same: Spain willingly participated in a Eurovision contest in which a country like "Wales" which is not independent (= part of the UK) took part.

Even if a country doesn't recognise Kosovo as a country it's still an entity of another country - called "Kosovo and Metohija" (Serbia consists of Serbia and two autonomous regions like Kosovo and Metohija; and Voyvodina). Thus, countries such as Spain could treat Kosovo as "Wales" in JESC - an exception to the rule.. an "entity" which is autonomous/a country within a country and call it a day.

EBU events and "internal politics" are indeed two different things - that's why Israel can compete at Eurovision, Wales - as a non-independent country (JESC) - can compete at Eurovision and Kosovo can compete at a Eurovision-related event (Young Dancers).
Thus, I see no point of ignoring the status quo that more than 82,5% of the current participating countries recognise it as a fully independent state and for the other 17,5% per cent, they can just "treat them" as "Kosovo and Metohija".

 

[Marcos C]

Wales - as a non-independent country (JESC) - can compete at Eurovision[...].

Wales cannot compete in JESC 2023 because the United Kingdom has already confirmed their particpation in that contest. I hate to sound blunt, but you're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Mainshow]

Wales cannot compete in JESC 2023 because the United Kingdom has already confirmed their particpation in that contest. I hate to sound blunt, but you're comparing apples and oranges.

I'm pretty much aware of that fact.
Maybe I have written too much and it has got lost in the mix of my words but the core message was that countries such as Spain (who are told to probably withdraw if Kosovo debuts) wouldn't allow countries they hadn't recognised as independent to compete at Eurovision.

Wales works as a perfect example in this case because it is - like Kosovo - in the eyes of such countries not an independent country, yet it was able to compete and Spain didn't withdraw.
Hence, it is not a given that countries would be withdrawing if the EBU invites Kosovo to take part.

I understand that a possible debut of Kosovo may upset very few counties but it's not an "apocalypse type of scenario" a few fand try to label it. Eventually, most countries Will cope with it... even Spain.