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JESC 2021

Bobjan FR
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Dr J said:
Osterdahl: "We had voters from 199 countries."

Dr J: "(1) How do you know that? (2) Why don't you report the votes from each country if you know that?"
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That's so strange, so it means there is probably at least one person from bhutan or samoa islands who voted yesterday.
 
A-lister
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Congrats to :am: on the victory xclap

So 7/10 from my own top. 10 made it to the actual top. 10 (albeit a bit different order, see my ranking below). Not shocking though considering most of these represent the "new jESC"-trend that has been pushed alot by Poland actually in the past years, in other words more professional productions, more "adult" and contemporary leaning, wheres the rest still sound pretty much what one could expect from jESC or forcefully adult like Portugal and Ukraine which just comes across as odd in the context.

I still don't fully click with the Armenian entry however, it's pretty good and a deserved winner and for a jESC entry it feels like something that could have done well even in adult ESC (and frankly better than the past 9 Armenian adult ESC entries!), but it seems way too much adult leaning (not in the way that Portugal or Ukraine did but still) wheres the others in the top. 3 still had some age-appropriate approach to them. I guess this is my general problem with jESC, how make entries that work universally but still fit in a kids context ?

A-lister said:
So not really invested in jESC, but nevertheless here is my ranking based on my first listens (could they just stop with the awful native/english bi-lingualism though? The English parts drag down almost every entry xshrug) :

In its own league
1. :pl: (since 2018, ok 2020 was just so-so, Poland has really rocked this contest... if they just paid the adult version half of the effort they do jESC their Eurovision record could look so different)

Pretty good
2. :fr:
3. :mk:
4. :am:

Ok
5. :es:
6. :ge:
7. :al:
8. :ru:
9. :az:
10. :it:

The rest (it's kids so I'll refrain from being harsh but the range is between meh to bad basically...)
11. :rs:
12: :ua:
13. :de:
14. :kz:
15. :nl:
16: :pt:
17. :ie:
18. :bg:
19. :mt:
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Dr J
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A-lister said:
I guess this is my general problem with jESC, how make entries that work universally but still fit in a kids context ?
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I fully agree with you on this concern. We did not have this problem in 2003-2010, 2012, 2014 because the kids wrote the songs. That was not a rule but no one thought to do otherwise in a kids' contest. Now it is absurd that so many JESC songs sound like they are more suitable for ESC: that comes of being written by adults. So now that old practice should become a rule: no song to be entered unless written by the singer, at least the lyrics.
 
Dr J
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harey said:
I didn't listen to the songs before the show and I really enjoyed it. My top 5 was : Ukraine, Georgia, France, Ireland and Germany. Even if I am not a fan of the winning song, it was quality and well deserved!
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AlekS said:
eurovoix.com

🇫🇷 Junior Eurovision 2021: Breakdown of the Online Voting - Eurovoix

The winning act for Junior Eurovision 2021 received just under 10% of all votes cast in this year's contest.
eurovoix.com eurovoix.com

A total of 4.3 million votes were cast. The breakdown of the vote by % and estimated total number of votes is:
  1. Armenia – 9.89% – 425,270 votes
  2. Poland – 9.26% – 398,180 votes
  3. Portugal – 8.35% – 359,050 votes
  4. France – 6.08% – 261,440 votes
  5. Ukraine – 5.72% – 245,960 votes
  6. Serbia – 5.63% – 242,090 votes
  7. Georgia – 5.35% – 230,050 votes
  8. North Macedonia – 5.35% – 230,050 votes
  9. Kazakhstan – 5.17% – 222,310 votes
  10. Russia – 4.54% – 195,220 votes
  11. Malta – 4.54% – 195,220 votes
  12. Italy – 4.26% – 183,180 votes
  13. Spain – 4.26% – 183,180 votes
  14. Germany – 4.17% – 179,310 votes
  15. Azerbaijan – 3.81% – 163,830 votes
  16. Albania – 3.54% – 152,220 votes
  17. Ireland – 3.54% – 152,220 votes
  18. Bulgaria – 3.45% – 148,530 votes
  19. Netherlands – 3.09% – 132,870 votes

Such number is a huge success for us, because nobody watches JESC here (the TV rating of 0.5%?), so we traditionally rely on international voters. Moreover, this year the broadcast was moved to a sub-channel UA:Culture. The TV ratings will be abysmal.
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Kaz said:
So I have some thoughts on some entries, I don't know how it'll be received here but I do want to preface everything by saying that all these kids are immensely talented and I wish them all the best, I'm sure this will be a career highlight for them and I hope it was a great experience.

Ukraine
This was the winner for me. Olena had by far the most professional performance and she sounded impeccable. Her performance really showed that you don't need an overly complex LED screen to stand out - standing alone on a black stage surrounded by whirling white lights actually helped her stand out the most compared to all the various neon blue/pink entries. I really thought juries would push her into the Top 3, but I'm still very glad with her placement considering that Ukraine was largely under the radar leading up to the contest.

Portugal
You're telling me Portugal had almost double Italy's amount of online votes? :oops::oops: I mean...definitely unexpected lol.
He performed well. I know the song is a bit of a cult hit, apparently, but it's quite shocking to see him pull a Michal Szpak.

Serbia
I'm not going to debate the quality of this song, although the girls both performed it to the best of their abilities and they should be proud. But Serbia placing 6th in the online vote?

Idk...Portugal and Serbia just highlight that there needs to be a change in the online voting system to me. My theory (*just a theory*) is that a lot of these were strategic votes. And this isn't a once-off phenomenon, it keeps on happening since the introduction of the voting system which requires you to vote for at least 3 entries. And it keeps on happening to Portugal specifically in a way that seems peculiar to me.
Portugal 2017, Youtuber placed 10th online vs 15th jury.
Portugal 2018, Gosto do tudo placed 13th online vs joint last jury.
Portugal 2019, Vem conmigo placed 12th online vs last jury.
Serbia 2020, Heartbeat placed 7th online vs 11th jury.
And now in 2021, O rapaz placed 3rd online vs 18th jury, and Oci Deteta placed 6th online vs 15th jury.

Everyone expected all of these songs to finish in low positions. For the most part, people recognised these songs as being not just potential middle-placers, but rather towards the very bottom. Yet in all these cases the online vote actually did end up placing them towards the middle (or top) of the scoreboard.

This just screams strategic voting to me. People have to vote for at least 3 songs, but if you're a Poland sta
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Kaz said:
n (for example), then you're surely not going to vote for your biggest competitor even if you recognise that they have a great performance as well. So instead people are voting for the songs which they know don't realistically have a chance to win.

If this is Portugal/Serbia's strategy towards the contest...I mean, good on them? Because it's working lol.
Click to expand...
Harey: Yes! That's the way to enjoy JESC. Come to it fresh and react to the performances. This is why pre-show ads, videos and voting should be banned.

AlekS: Thank you for this! But the result is laughable. Now someone has won the JESC with only 9% of the vote. 91% of Eurokids voted against the winner. This screams "rank choice voting" from the mountaintops. If EBU won't do it, the national governments ought to jointly take over the contest. Last year, there was a clear margin of over 200,000 votes between the winner and the runner-up and we knew where they came from. This year, a difference of 27,000 votes made the difference between the winner and the runner-up. We can guess that the 27,000 came from Armenia and that is all well and good: but where did the other 400,000 come from? Only Osterdahl and God know and neither is telling!

Kaz: Great research! And when you say we need a change in voting scheme, I'm right with you. But kids did strategic voting? It stretches the imagination beyond belief! They have no idea who their favourites' likely competitors are. But if your real message is "we don't know where the votes came from and we need to know", I am right in behind you. I tend to think that Portugal's large total came from presenting last but that is a guess. Follow Osterdahl literally and we might find out that they came from Brazil, Angola, Mozambique and the Cape Verde Islands! So, show us your stuff, Martin!
 
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Sammy
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Mainshow
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Sammy said:
(3) Since the total number of countries in the world is 195, which four countries from other planets voted?. :mrgreen:

www.worldometers.info

How many countries are there in the world? (2024) - Total & List | Worldometer

www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
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We still have "countries" which aren´t recognized as such by the UN like Taiwan, Vatican, Palestine or Kosovo - maybe he was referring to them? Also, he might have counted Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England separately? (as well as territories as Faroe Islands and French Polynesia?)
 
Sammy
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Mainshow said:
We still have "countries" which aren´t recognized as such by the UN like Taiwan, Vatican, Palestine or Kosovo - maybe he was referring to them? Also, he might have counted Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England separately? (as well as territories as Faroe Islands and French Polynesia?)
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Either way it‘s a very stupid statement, as it would imply people from EVERY single country have voted. let me laugh! People from Kiribati, Mauretania, Brunei or East Timor voted for the JESC!? xrofl
 
Looren
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Sammy said:
Either way it‘s a very stupid statement, as it would imply people from EVERY single country have voted. let me laugh! People from Kiribati or East Timor voted for the JESC!? xrofl
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I guess someone used VPN :lol: :lol:
 
Dr J
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AlekS said:
5UtQajM.jpg


:am: :az:

Ambassador of Azerbaijan in France congratulated Armenia.
Click to expand...
What Sona is doing here, as good as her song was, might be the best performance in JESC 2021. Not everyone might understand its significance.

The Armenians and Azerbaijanis have been literally at one another's throats for 100 years. In a word, they hate one another. Each one thinks the other are thieves who stole their land and have no right to exist. "There are no diplomatic relations between Armenia and Azerbaijan . . . " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenia–Azerbaijan_relations. Last year, Arpin could not come to JESC 2020 because Armenia went into total mobililsation after the Azerbaijani Army hit Nagorno-Karabakh, a part of Azerbaijan whose residents are mostly Armenians, with missiles, heavy artillery and drones.

But Sona, an Azerbaijani, is embracing Arpin, an Armenian. It is a rare but beautiful sight. It says "the spirit of JESC is love and peace and it transcends all boundaries and all hatreds..."

What Sona is doing is also admirably courageous. I hope it does not happen but Sona could catch hell when Azerbaijanis see this photo. She is also a budding star in Azerbaijan and she could lose her fans. Her career could be damaged. People may no longer want to listen to her. At least some will certainly call her a traitor, sororising (is that the female form of "fraternising"?) with her country's enemy. Unfortunately, I doubt she thought about these things before hugging an Armenian. But if she did think for a minute about these realities and did it anyway, it makes her even more of a brave hero for peace.

Dear Sona, try to teach your people about the merits of peace, love and giving up hatred. "And a child shall lead them."

It is not clear in the photo what Arpin is doing. She is probably so shocked she does not know what to do. But I give her full credit for letting it go on. There will be many in Armenia who will flame her for not smacking Sona to the ground at least. One Armenian whom I met in America used to say about how to behave with Azerbaijanis, "The only way is line 'em up and shoot 'em down."

Yet now I have just heard that Armenia have said that they want to hold JESC 2022 in Yerevan. If Arpin wants to be a leader worthy of her position, she will use whatever political capital she has as leader of Europe's - and Armenia's - musical youth, of JESC - and she has some - to insist that her Government allow the Azerbaijanis full rights of participation in JESC 2022. And I fully support those who have posted that, if the Armenian Government will not allow this, JESC 2022 should not be held in Armenia. Send it to hmmm . . . Poland?
 
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A-lister
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Dr J said:
I fully agree with you on this concern. We did not have this problem in 2003-2010, 2012, 2014 because the kids wrote the songs. That was not a rule but no one thought to do otherwise in a kids' contest. Now it is absurd that so many JESC songs sound like they are more suitable for ESC: that comes of being written by adults. So now that old practice should become a rule: no song to be entered unless written by the singer, at least the lyrics.
Click to expand...

I think though they realized that that rule was just on paper and not followed by all delegations (as I am certain some of the entries also during those years were de facto written/composed by adults but "officially" presented as products by the kids, pure cheating but hard to actually check).
 
GianlucaTomoe
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Congratulations to Armenia and Maléna for this beautiful and extremely deserved victory. It was the best outcome possible for this edition.

For the rest of the results, well, as usual there are some overrations and underrations, but they are a part of the game, aren't they? Better not to comment on those, after all they are not so many, normally and thankfully in JESC we have less of those than in ESC.
 
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Sammy
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Dr J
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A-lister said:
I think though they realized that that rule was just on paper and not followed by all delegations (as I am certain some of the entries also during those years were de facto written/composed by adults but "officially" presented as products by the kids, pure cheating but hard to actually check).
Click to expand...
There was never a rule. It was just a custom. Greenhousing started professionalisation and then everyone was doing professional songs and singer training/packaging. I am saying that now the former custom should be made the rule. Re cheating: you cannot tell whether a song is written by a child or by a professional? I know you can and so can everyone!
 
Dr J
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Joni said:
^ Actually Malena called Sona back when she was about to leave

youtu.be

Junior Eurovision | Azerbaijan (Sona Azizova) goes to Armenia (Maléna) to congratulate on their win.

Junior Eurovision 2021
youtu.be youtu.be
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Yes, I can see it in this video. Arpin hugged first.

So Arpin just made the first decision that shows she can represent the best attitudes in Europe.

I don't like her politics. I believe in democracy. But I am not so ideological that I cannot give credit where it is due.

She has shown good leadership for peace above. And yes, it was courageous too: hugging Azerbaijanis will make many Armenians reject Arpin. Next year, when Armenia has to decide how to treat Azerbaijanis in JESC 2022, we will see if she still stands for peace and justice. Right now, Sona could not even cross the border into Armenia to visit her new friend.

[Note: Arpine landed in Yerevan and apparently the hugging issue came up. First, note that the Armenian press reported it as Sona hugged Arpine. Arpine said that she had never met Sona before but she has no reason to dislike her because she is "a girl just like me". Did she take the opportunity to make some comments on peace with Azerbaijan? Nope. She seemed content to enjoy the positive spin that the Armenian press is putting on the hug for her and forget about it. Does not augur well for the beautiful implications we "imagined" but Arpine got through it unscathed. What does it augur for Arpine speaking up for fairness to Azerbaijan in JESC 2022? Not much good.]

But it was also important that Sona was even there: she went to the Armenian room, which took courage and could damage her career. So both girls did a brave and important thing: showing what peace looks like.

[Meanwhile, in Baku, there are reports that 43 people were detained by Azerbaijani security inquiring into why they voted for Armenia in JESC. Poor Sona! Let's hope she gets through the flak as well as Arpine did. On the other hand, apparently, after JESC 2018, the boy representing Armenia and the girl representing Azerbaijan took a photo together. I haven't found any evidence that they are not still safe and well.]
 
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