Eurovision 2015 - When Eurovision stopped being a contest for the European people : MY review

[tuorem]

I think the juries are needed but EBU has to change the voting system. Current voting system is just unfair.

I agree there's too much English in Eurovision and only bringing back the language rule can help. Only few countries show their language for example Portugal and they almost everytime fail to qualify. That's because, like we all know, singing in English is a big advantage.

This! The problem is equally shared between the EBU and the broadcasters themselves: if they stopped thinking what could work the best with juries and all started sending daring quality music in their own language, juries would have no choice but to cast their votes anyway. Just because most broadcasters play it safe, the rest runs the risk of failing simply for being "different" = the clearest proof of that is Portugal, the only country that never sold it soul so far. Of course, their entries aren't always great, but they stay true to what Portugal is I think.

As a European language lover, I'm just devastated to see the "variety" of languages decrease a little more every year: special mention to Israel that gave up its bilingual format and Serbia that will threw its language away for the first time. This is very poor, I'm sorry but I'm not satisfied with 6/7 countries out of 40 not falling for English.

As for the quality of the songs, I tend to think a year out of two is weak since to me the strongest years of the 10's were 2010, 2012 and 2014 (2009 was ok-ish, 2011 mediocre and 2013 awful overall), so even if I didn't listen to the songs yet, I hope 2016 will be better. As for the diversity, it's difficult to deny that juries were (partly or completely) responsible for the failure of songs with local flavor: Finland 2010, Bulgaria 2013, Portugal 2014, Poland 2014... and generally were not nice with non-English songs, one can find lots of examples: Bulgaria 2011 & 2012, Montenegro 2013 for instance. All this contributed to homogenizing the contest because they only seem to be ok with almost every ballad (going from "Suus" to "What If') and the usual safe uptempo stuff sent mostly by Nordic countries. IMO with the exception of radio-friendly "influences" a la Only Teardrops, I think songs like "Horehronie", "Quero Ser Tua" or "Samo Shampioni" are definitely chanceless. I'm glad the contest got serious (due to less joke entries) and somehow more modern-sounding recently, but I regret that Europe is scared of showcasing its culture now.

 

[A-lister]

This! The problem is equally shared between the EBU and the broadcasters themselves: if they stopped thinking what could work the best with juries and all started sending daring quality music in their own language, juries would have no choice but to cast their votes anyway. Just because most broadcasters play it safe, the rest runs the risk of failing simply for being "different" = the clearest proof of that is Portugal, the only country that never sold it soul so far. Of course, their entries aren't always great, but they stay true to what Portugal is I think.

As a European language lover, I'm just devastated to see the "variety" of languages decrease a little more every year: special mention to Israel that gave up its bilingual format and Serbia that will threw its language away for the first time. This is very poor, I'm sorry but I'm not satisfied with 6/7 countries out of 40 not falling for English.

As for the quality of the songs, I tend to think a year out of two is weak since to me the strongest years of the 10's were 2010, 2012 and 2014 (2009 was ok-ish, 2011 mediocre and 2013 awful overall), so even if I didn't listen to the songs yet, I hope 2016 will be better. As for the diversity, it's difficult to deny that juries were (partly or completely) responsible for the failure of songs with local flavor: Finland 2010, Bulgaria 2013, Portugal 2014, Poland 2014... and generally were not nice with non-English songs, one can find lots of examples: Bulgaria 2011 & 2012, Montenegro 2013 for instance. All this contributed to homogenizing the contest because they only seem to be ok with almost every ballad (going from "Suus" to "What If') and the usual safe uptempo stuff sent mostly by Nordic countries. IMO with the exception of radio-friendly "influences" a la Only Teardrops, I think songs like "Horehronie", "Quero Ser Tua" or "Samo Shampioni" are definitely chanceless. I'm glad the contest got serious (due to less joke entries) and somehow more modern-sounding recently, but I regret that Europe is scared of showcasing its culture now.

This!

And whether agree or not, what we witness now is a direct result of the juries re-introduction to the contest. Broadcasters are simply afraid to send anything that isn't "jury-friendly" and the juries doesn't have the taste of European people, they are like corrupt politicians ruling over the masses making choices that has no actual public support. It's sad that Eurovision which was a contest for Europe become a contest for a single interest group with no emotional feeling towards Europe what-so-ever.

 

[FoxOfShadows]

I'd love to see more variety in the contest. "Suus", "Igranka", "Voda" and so on. Bulgaria were always good at bringing stuff like that so I hope they come back soon. But sadly, you're wrong in saying that the contest isn't for European people anymore. Generic pop songs do appeal to most people. Look at the charts. It's the same songs at the top everywhere. If Europeans really did want ethnic, different songs than they would have selected them in their national finals. Sweden, Romania, Denmark, Moldova: all generic pop songs chosen by the public. Greece, Norway and Albania on the other hand chose the duller ballads. It's what the public voted for so it is the sort of songs they like. It's sad, but that;s just how it is now

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Some people are just resistant to change. I am too, until it becomes clear that things have to change. By 2008 Eurovision was completely broken and its reputation in tatters - I don't think even the countries that benefitted from the mess the Contest had become had any real respect for it. The voting was so unbelievably corrupt and the quality of music dire. There were endless joke entries too. I don't think that there is any doubt that Eurovision has improved hugely since 2009, certainly for myself I am now quite open and proud about being a Eurovision fan, in the old years it was definitely something you would keep quiet!

I've been so impressed at the direction the Contest has taken since 2009, and I'm really excited about its future

 

[popavapeur]

2015 is one of the worst so far but only for the songs. it's almost 80% of the contest so that's why i already say that's a weak year. On the other hand i think that the contest is more enjoyable since Moscow, the quality of the show itself has increased by 10. the postcards are far more creative, the shows between the songs are less boring, the voting is more exciting.The visual identity stands out (instead of being "too campy", kitsch) Even as a fan, i found that the contest was "too long" in the 2000. Now i'm like "already? it's finished?". So i'm sure that Vienna will be a good show, just that we're going to have a lot of dull ballads and we won't have a strong winner, surely one of the weakest from these past years. I think we can't have an Euphoria or Rise Like A Phoenix each year so..

Now talking about the juries, yes we have to change something about them (maybe 40% juries/60% televoting? ) I still think that they don't really represent the music industry and for some countries the music industry is terribly poor that "are these people really able to judge?" . At the same time i'm happy they're here. I find the voting a little bit more "fair". I have to admit that i hate when i see how Poland ranked last year but i'm also happy to see some countries with a lot of diaspora, struggle a little to get the points they usually have so easily (like they're not really afraid to pass through the SF, whatever the song is, they know they'll be in the final)

And for the songs.. i mean, it's just how the music industry is right know. When i look at the charts of my country, i see the uptempo stuff low in the charts and the "boring-guitar-ish-solo-sweet-guy-singing" topping (so, lot of ballads). I remember 2012 with a contest with some great uptempo stuff and it was the time when all the pop stars diva were at their tops, selling their music by million. We're lucky : it seems it might change really quickly (just see the difference between 2012 and 2015, we can expect a kind of songs quite different to 2018 ) and for a bunch of people who like ballads more than uptempo, 2015 is surely one of the best ESC.

Finally for the language thing, i don't really have an opinion. Some languages are hard to listen to, I find my own language sounding sometimes quite weird and terrible when it's in French and when i hear the english version it's more "musical". Some languages needs more work to sound decent to a large panel of viewers, so i understand why some countries decide to sing in english each time. Btw i don't think that english helps a song to top easier, when it's a hit song, whatever the language is, it'll win (Molitva, yes and maybe "Gangnam Style" even if the hype was for the dance, people weren't annoyed by the lyrics) and don't forget that a lot of people don't speak english and watch the shows.. i mean if you don't understand english what's the difference for you if the song is in another language? (yes of course we hear more english songs than finnish for example, okay, right but in the way of understanding the lyrics, that's the same)

 

[GWTW1939]

Sorry, but contest is more corrupt today then it ever was during the so called dark ages of the 2000 when it was dominated by the Balkans and Eastern Europe

I can't understand how some people think its more fair today then it was ten years ago. The results weren't always perfect but they most definitely weren't any more manipulated or corrupt then they are now as some seem to love claiming. Its all fine and dandy when behind the scene maneuvering benefits a Western/Scandinavian country (and you know its happening!) yet evil and disgusting when it appears to be a Balkan/Eastern one

The winners/contenders of 2009-14 would have most likely been winners (or close to) in the 2000 as well in a sole televote. You can't say the same for many of the winners, or contenders, of the 2000s. That says A LOT about what's happening behind the scenes not the taste of the people.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Agree 110% with what [MENTION=14282]popavapeur[/MENTION] said, except I think that this year is good too

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Sorry, but contest is more corrupt today then it ever was during the so called dark ages of the 2000 when it was dominated by the Balkans and Eastern Europe

I can't understand how some people think its more fair today then it was ten years ago. The results weren't always perfect but they most definitely weren't any more manipulated or corrupt then they are now as some seem to love claiming. Its all fine and dandy when behind the scene maneuvering benefits a Western/Scandinavian country (and you know its happening!) yet evil and disgusting when it appears to be a Balkan/Eastern one

The winners/contenders of 2009-14 would have most likely been winners (or close to) in the 2000 as well in a sole televote. You can't say the same for many of the winners, or contenders, of the 2000s. That says A LOT about what's happening behind the scenes not the taste of the people.

"The results weren't always perfect" - is that what you call being able to accurately predict every single year, without any reference to songs, who would give points to who? I personally would describe that situation as being far worse than 'not perfect'. Every year was a disgrace and a farce.

What we have now is in fact more a level playing field. Now some aren't happy with that, they like it being tilted in their favour, but you can rest assured that the Balkans/ex-USSR are still at an advantage, just that that advantage is now smaller and they have been joined by the Nordics.

As we have seen with the ex-USSR is that they are still perfectly able to succeed so long as they send good entries. But the days of sending shit and coming top 5/10 are over, and thank God for that . The Balkans seem to have struggled with this concept so far, but hopefully they'll get used to it eventually. At the end of the day, if they send the likes of Bosnia 06/Serbia 07 again, they will find it more than easy enough to get to the top.

 

[A-lister]

I'd love to see more variety in the contest. "Suus", "Igranka", "Voda" and so on. Bulgaria were always good at bringing stuff like that so I hope they come back soon. But sadly, you're wrong in saying that the contest isn't for European people anymore. Generic pop songs do appeal to most people. Look at the charts. It's the same songs at the top everywhere. If Europeans really did want ethnic, different songs than they would have selected them in their national finals. Sweden, Romania, Denmark, Moldova: all generic pop songs chosen by the public. Greece, Norway and Albania on the other hand chose the duller ballads. It's what the public voted for so it is the sort of songs they like. It's sad, but that;s just how it is now

This is where you are wrong actually, and I'm going to tell you why. Yes, there are of course international (mostly US but also British and to some extension Swedish) "hits", and the major labels (based in the US) controls the market, HOWEVER Eurovision is not about that, it's about showcasing the LOCAL music scene (or atleast it should be), and if you look at it from that perspective it should be far more diverse than it ended up as and what people may expect initially. For instance in many countries the idea of even singing in English for the local market if you're a local artist is just not a reality.. look at Russian Pop for instance, it has very little to do with those US international hits... yet somehow they end up sending imported ballads in English? And now I'm talking of BIG local acts with top charting songs.

So you should actually look at what's on the charts and what's popular in the different European countries while stripping of all the inevitable international hits there and you'll find out that Eurovision as it is today is VERY misleading and by far NOT representable of what the actual local music scenes look like and what actual local "hits" are, therefor I do find my opinion very valid.

So again, shouldn't Eurovision be a way of showcasing the LOCAL music scenes? (not necessarily ethno of course, but just the local scenes in general as they actually look at the moment) or should it be local acts doing music that they wouldn't normally do? Because the latter actually makes no sense if you think about it. It's illogical for the Eurovision contest as a concept, but it's also illogical for all these acts actually turning out doing stuff that doesn't represent what they actually do normally in their own markets.

 

[A-lister]

Some people are just resistant to change. I am too, until it becomes clear that things have to change. By 2008 Eurovision was completely broken and its reputation in tatters - I don't think even the countries that benefitted from the mess the Contest had become had any real respect for it. The voting was so unbelievably corrupt and the quality of music dire. There were endless joke entries too. I don't think that there is any doubt that Eurovision has improved hugely since 2009, certainly for myself I am now quite open and proud about being a Eurovision fan, in the old years it was definitely something you would keep quiet!

I've been so impressed at the direction the Contest has taken since 2009, and I'm really excited about its future

What's there to be excited about? That it's all westernized middle-of-the-road dated Pop in English which aren't representing the local music scenes? I have a hard time seeing what could possibly be better about Eurovision now than back then? Yes sure the was the diaspora voting, but other than that Eurovision was far more interesting and diverse some years ago where now it all blends into one. Yes there were joke acts, but you make it sound like they were all jokes? That's hardly true, out of most entries maybe a handful at most were joke acts.

 

[A-lister]

As we have seen with the ex-USSR is that they are still perfectly able to succeed so long as they send good entries. But the days of sending shit and coming top 5/10 are over, and thank God for that . .

What we have now is ex-USSR countries sending westernized imported ballads in English to be even ABLE to succeed, that's hardly a step forward. Look at Russia, Armenia, Ukraine... do you honestly think they have become BETTER in this contest since the juries were introduced? More the opposite, they've become a total bore when before they actually delivered.

Western countries (except for maybe Scandinavian ones) were lazy and got bitter for getting results they deserved (not always, but most of the times), while the "Eastern" ones really stepped up their game, now to succeed all you have to cater to some sort of dated western norm. What happened now is imo the total opposite of what you described, now you can actually get away with just wailing a Disney ballad in English for 3 minutes but have nothing else to offer, now you don't have to put effort in show or song, if you play it safe, wail and do it in English and for "western" ears (the grandmas who still enjoy Disney ballads and Adult-Chart Pop) then you are safe. What happened now is that juries were brought in to actually LOWER the general ambition and FORCE a certain "working formula" for the contest. Countries who actually put effort (I mentioned some) before have now become lazy because they know that these anglo-western-centric juries doesn't care if they put effort, only if they sound as these juries want them to sound - plain boring without any representation of their own countries' music.

 

[FoxOfShadows]

This is where you are wrong actually, and I'm going to tell you why. Yes, there are of course international (mostly US but also British and to some extension Swedish) "hits", and the major labels (based in the US) controls the market, HOWEVER Eurovision is not about that, it's about showcasing the LOCAL music scene (or atleast it should be), and if you look at it from that perspective it should be far more diverse than it ended up as and what people may expect initially. For instance in many countries the idea of even singing in English for the local market if you're a local artist is just not a reality.. look at Russian Pop for instance, it has very little to do with those US international hits... yet somehow they end up sending imported ballads in English? And now I'm talking of BIG local acts with top charting songs.

So you should actually look at what's on the charts and what's popular in the different European countries while stripping of all the inevitable international hits there and you'll find out that Eurovision as it is today is VERY misleading and by far NOT representable of what the actual local music scenes look like and what actual local "hits" are, therefor I do find my opinion very valid.

So again, shouldn't Eurovision be a way of showcasing the LOCAL music scenes? (not necessarily ethno of course, but just the local scenes in general as they actually look at the moment) or should it be local acts doing music that they wouldn't normally do? Because the latter actually makes no sense if you think about it. It's illogical for the Eurovision contest as a concept, but it's also illogical for all these acts actually turning out doing stuff that doesn't represent what they actually do normally in their own markets.

You haven't explained why so many countries this year picked generic songs in their national final rather than the more unique songs. Norway, Greece and especially Sweden has different, more local songs in their national finals but the televoters didn't put them on top. Mans got more votes than Jon. These are the people who watch Eurovision and they still put forward these songs. The only countries this year to pick anything unique were Latvia and Finland yet both of them were very close to picking generic boy bands and male pop singers. The public voted for them. The Eurovision fans voted for them. Evidently, it is the sort of music they want to listen to.

I would love to hear more local music in Eurovision. More genres, more languages, everything. Serbia ruined their song his year by changing language and Romania almost did the same. I hate the disney ballads like "Gravity", "What if?" and especially Poland and Russia's songs this year. They don't deserve the high placings they get. But the public still vote them high up every year while the unique, diverse songs get left behind. Don't blame everything on the juries; the televoters are just as bad.

 

[BarefootBoogaloo]

It seems a joke at this point when most national contests have non-English songs since everyone knows the English song will be chosen or when the audiences don't vote for a song because it's not in English, even if it means voting for a terrible/mediocre song.

What really annoys me is that when bringing the language rule back is brought up, immediately people jump in about how that's silly because "Eurovision is global" or "English is understood by more people" and it's like Yes, Eurovision is global, but it shouldn't be homogenous in language or musical genre since Europe, and the world for that matter, certainly aren't.

 

[lilka]

Some people are just resistant to change. I am too, until it becomes clear that things have to change. By 2008 Eurovision was completely broken and its reputation in tatters - I don't think even the countries that benefitted from the mess the Contest had become had any real respect for it. The voting was so unbelievably corrupt and the quality of music dire. There were endless joke entries too. I don't think that there is any doubt that Eurovision has improved hugely since 2009, certainly for myself I am now quite open and proud about being a Eurovision fan, in the old years it was definitely something you would keep quiet!

I've been so impressed at the direction the Contest has taken since 2009, and I'm really excited about its future

This is more or less my own opinion as well, BUT:

1) Even though I'm happy that there's much more quality, I have to admit many of the songs are decent, but unfortunately boring at the same time;
2) I would love to hear more non-English songs;
3) The current voting system is, in my opinion, unfair.

 

[Tjipptjopp]

I don't mind a lot of English songs. What would be nice would maybe be that the writers (I guess at least one of them) of a song must be from the country sending the song! I don't know how common this is, but it goes more against the logic of local music from a specific country than the language thing. A lot of new (and fresh?) music is written in English and to stop that would possibly kill the contest I think. Are people really considering this?

I also really think the juries were needed to stop a LOT of joke entries doing so good. But I agree it would be better if the public vote would decide the winner. Maybe experiment with lower weighted jury points like popavapeur suggested, maybe 1/3. Every song should preferably not be sent just for the jury points. The juries ability to kill songs is risky. I think maybe top 15 songs from televote and 15 from jury vote and combine to a top 10 (unless less power from jury vote any other way), or even better make every country give points to more than 10 songs!!!

 

[ZoboCamel]

I think the juries are needed but EBU has to change the voting system. Current voting system is just unfair.

I agree there's too much English in Eurovision and only bringing back the language rule can help. Only few countries show their language for example Portugal and they almost everytime fail to qualify. That's because, like we all know, singing in English is a big advantage.

I'd rather not force the language rule again - it was removed for a reason, and there are some countries where English seems to be a significant part of the music industry, so forcing it on everyone could actually lead to less authentic music from some. This is just another reason I want Italy to succeed this year (though I think they have the best song anyway) - it'd be a more natural way to encourage national languages back to Eurovision, and that's exactly what we need.

I think Italy has the best song, and that it should pick up plenty of votes despite being non-English. If Il Volo manage to top Mans and the others this year, with their mainstream, English radio pop, I feel it'll have a big effect on what languages we see at the contest. While I wouldn't join the group calling this year's contest bad, the lack of variety is a definite weakness; I'd like to see at least half of the entries in non-English languages, and some less ballads.

Perhaps the jury vote could be lowered to, say, 30% or 35% instead of 50%? They still have an important role to play in the scoring, I think, but they've marked down too many deserving songs lately in comparison to the good songs they've saved to justify their current power. On the note of juries and organiser power, though: I'm entirely in agreement that the predetermined running order should go. The tiny benefit that it has is completely overshadowed by the corruption it allows.

If we get a deserving, unique winner and some modifications to the jury voting, then I think Eurovision will be on track to reaching its best years. If we don't, I think we'll just see a continue in the current state of things: a slight increase in quality over time, offset by a slight decrease in variety and excitement.

 

[pinkchiffon]

You haven't explained why so many countries this year picked generic songs in their national final rather than the more unique songs. Norway, Greece and especially Sweden has different, more local songs in their national finals but the televoters didn't put them on top. Mans got more votes than Jon. These are the people who watch Eurovision and they still put forward these songs. The only countries this year to pick anything unique were Latvia and Finland yet both of them were very close to picking generic boy bands and male pop singers. The public voted for them. The Eurovision fans voted for them. Evidently, it is the sort of music they want to listen to.

I would love to hear more local music in Eurovision. More genres, more languages, everything. Serbia ruined their song his year by changing language and Romania almost did the same. I hate the disney ballads like "Gravity", "What if?" and especially Poland and Russia's songs this year. They don't deserve the high placings they get. But the public still vote them high up every year while the unique, diverse songs get left behind. Don't blame everything on the juries; the televoters are just as bad.

I agree with this and I think it's a problem that goes much deeper than what is rewarded in Eurovision. In many cases, musicians themselves feel like English represents modernity and professionalism, like their own language isn't good enough for the international stage.