NSC 185 in Tonallán, I-S-C | Semi Final 1 | DDL : 23 SEP 23:59 CET

[Fearnavigatr]

I suppose this needs to be brought up. It was recently pointed out in the Skype convo that Chris Harms is both a featured artist in Trollheimr's entry in semi 1 and the lead singer of the band in Kamandé's entry in semi 2, potentially violating rule 3.9 that states an artist may only appear for one nation in the same edition.

Personally, I think we should let it slide and pass off his role in Trollheimr as merely a backing vocalist, especially since he's not credited in the entry as it appears in this show. We have a few precedents where similar situations have happened in the past, including one occasion where it was done knowingly and consensus allowed it during the confirmation period.

 

[berlyda]

I would usually be against allowing a featured artist to be part of another entry, personally. But in this case I am in favour of letting it slide too, because

(a) he presumably wasn't directly credited in either confirmation, making it easy for the host to miss

(b) they're in different semis, making is easy for the nation owners to miss, and

(c) it's already past the point of changing entries.

Since he plays a minor role in Trollheimr's entry, I think it would be unnecessarily harsh to disqualify either of the entries.

 

[azilio99]

Voted:

Calypso
Ugaly
Kimmystan
Lacrea
Sundfør
Arirang
Roseland
Tanoiro
Comino
MatiMati

ReJu:

Moisantia
Rahasia-Diati
Svobodnia
Reym-L-Dneurb
Adamsburg
Kalos Metropolis
Balearica Island
Doire

 

[azilio99]

Please, don't forget to vote!

@ferret @Karhu @PopGeek @Territrius @Stargazer @Mozz @daniels1000 @whiteshoes @berlyda @Gera11 @MARCOMEN @CypriotGirl @My Star @94ayd @pyryniemi @takeru @kopachka @Yoni

 

[Stargazer]

voted!

I suppose this needs to be brought up. It was recently pointed out in the Skype convo that Chris Harms is both a featured artist in Trollheimr's entry in semi 1 and the lead singer of the band in Kamandé's entry in semi 2, potentially violating rule 3.9 that states an artist may only appear for one nation in the same edition.

Personally, I think we should let it slide and pass off his role in Trollheimr as merely a backing vocalist, especially since he's not credited in the entry as it appears in this show. We have a few precedents where similar situations have happened in the past, including one occasion where it was done knowingly and consensus allowed it during the confirmation period.

I would usually be against allowing a featured artist to be part of another entry, personally. But in this case I am in favour of letting it slide too, because

(a) he presumably wasn't directly credited in either confirmation, making it easy for the host to miss

(b) they're in different semis, making is easy for the nation owners to miss, and

(c) it's already past the point of changing entries.

Since he plays a minor role in Trollheimr's entry, I think it would be unnecessarily harsh to disqualify either of the entries.

Oh no! It didn't even cross my mind that any of the featured artists could potentially be sent this particular edition of all editions. Thank you for being so considerate.

 

[Morty]

This does bring up something that has annoyed me a bit for a while tho. Featured artists are very often ignored in NSC, both in the show, and later in the database. Like in this edition, on Trollheimr's entry (where Joachim Witt, Tilo Wolff and Chris Harms are ignored) and Begonia's entry (where Nirvana and Bill Burr are ignored).

 

[CypriotGirl]

voted. Not the best semi, I like my top 10 though, that was super easy to make.

 

[dogmeat]

This does bring up something that has annoyed me a bit for a while tho. Featured artists are very often ignored in NSC, both in the show, and later in the database. Like in this edition, on Trollheimr's entry (where Joachim Witt, Tilo Wolff and Chris Harms are ignored) and Begonia's entry (where Nirvana and Bill Burr are ignored).

I always leave out featured artists simply because it makes my list of entries cleaner.

Sometimes too many names make it difficult to make the banner and make the database messy and harder to navigate. Trollheimr's entry is one such example. Another example from this edition would be Zechonia, which, to quote the YT video description, "[...]included the band and over 100 musicians from the 'Symphonic Experience Orchestra', the 'Enharmonía Vocalis Choir' and the 'National University of Mexico Children’s and Youth Choir'. "
Imagine having "Septicflesh ft. Symphonic Experience Orchestra, Enharmonía Vocalis Choir & National University of Mexico Children’s and Youth Choir" on the banner or in the database...
Oh, and do you remember this Vylkuzeme entry with 4 guest appearances? They've been adding more and the last version has nine! xD

I understand your point and I wish there was a standardized system of crediting artists, but another problem is that different genres have different practices. For example, in pop music it's common to credit the vocalist only, disregarding composers, producers and instrumentalists. In rock music, the credited artist is usually a band, where sometimes the music is a collaborative work and sometimes it's just one member who's the main composer and lyricist. In classical music the credit goes to the composer even if they've been dead for centuries. Then there's the common practice of making remixes in electronic music to make things even more confusing.

I'd say it's easiest to just let everyone catalog their entries however they see most fitting.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

I don't often mind when featured artists are ignored, or credited for that matter, but my pet peeve is when featured artists are credited by parenthesis in the song title.

That's a database and Wiki inconsistency I'd love to go back and fix.

 

[berlyda]

I agree with @Morty, the inconsistency with featured artists is annoying. Ideally they should always be credited, but it is often difficult to do so on a banner. Maybe they should be credited in the text show instead if the host finds it difficult to fit on a banner. As for the database, I don't really see the problem with having the full list of artists credited - there's no reason an entry can't span multiple lines, and it kind of defeats the point of having a database if the data is incomplete.

The problem of different genres having different conventions is a whole other issue, but that's not one that we can influence one way or the other. The best we can do is to be consistent with the way the artist chooses to credit their band/featured artists/whatever.

 

[Morty]

I always leave out featured artists simply because it makes my list of entries cleaner.

Sometimes too many names make it difficult to make the banner and make the database messy and harder to navigate. Trollheimr's entry is one such example. Another example from this edition would be Zechonia, which, to quote the YT video description, "[...]included the band and over 100 musicians from the 'Symphonic Experience Orchestra', the 'Enharmonía Vocalis Choir' and the 'National University of Mexico Children’s and Youth Choir'. "
Imagine having "Septicflesh ft. Symphonic Experience Orchestra, Enharmonía Vocalis Choir & National University of Mexico Children’s and Youth Choir" on the banner or in the database...
Oh, and do you remember this Vylkuzeme entry with 4 guest appearances? They've been adding more and the last version has nine! xD

I understand your point and I wish there was a standardized system of crediting artists, but another problem is that different genres have different practices. For example, in pop music it's common to credit the vocalist only, disregarding composers, producers and instrumentalists. In rock music, the credited artist is usually a band, where sometimes the music is a collaborative work and sometimes it's just one member who's the main composer and lyricist. In classical music the credit goes to the composer even if they've been dead for centuries. Then there's the common practice of making remixes in electronic music to make things even more confusing.

I'd say it's easiest to just let everyone catalog their entries however they see most fitting.

I see the point, and I agree that Zechonia would be way too long. But with the cases of Trollheimr and Begonia this edition, the featured artists are mentioned in the titles of the YouTube videos. And those cases I think should have the featured artists credited in NSC as well. "Waiting Iist of Shelley & Nici, Tanner & Josh, Tiffany & Krista and Denise & James Earl" was never a problem, which imo means "Mono Inc. feat. Joachim Witt, Tilo Wolff & Chris Harms" shouldn't be either. At least not in the database.

I don't often mind when featured artists are ignored, or credited for that matter, but my pet peeve is when featured artists are credited by parenthesis in the song title.

That's a database and Wiki inconsistency I'd love to go back and fix.

Yeah, I agree, that's even worse. My entry this edition does this on YouTube (Eminem - Stan feat. Dido), but it was never an option for me to confirm it like that.

I agree with @Morty, the inconsistency with featured artists is annoying. Ideally they should always be credited, but it is often difficult to do so on a banner. Maybe they should be credited in the text show instead if the host finds it difficult to fit on a banner. As for the database, I don't really see the problem with having the full list of artists credited - there's no reason an entry can't span multiple lines, and it kind of defeats the point of having a database if the data is incomplete.

The problem of different genres having different conventions is a whole other issue, but that's not one that we can influence one way or the other. The best we can do is to be consistent with the way the artist chooses to credit their band/featured artists/whatever.

Total agreement here.

 

[PopGeek]

Oh no! I forgot to vote.

 

[azilio99]

Remember I put the 23:59 Deadline to avoid confusions. But I can't give results until september 24th 16:00 CET so you can still send your votes since I made results and banners for the final to every country.

(I'm sorry I've been going to my mom's house to charge my laptop, so it was easier for me to have everything ready so I can just add some votes tomorrow in my office's PC and post the banners i already did, you know, without the fear of my battery to go off)

I'm just missing Nurdia. Please vote!

 

[PopGeek]

Onto it! Will send once I'm done!

 

[Yoni]

I don't often mind when featured artists are ignored, or credited for that matter, but my pet peeve is when featured artists are credited by parenthesis in the song title.

That's a database and Wiki inconsistency I'd love to go back and fix.

I'm the opposite, I *always* put the featured artist in the song title in parenthesis for a cleaner look in the Artist section while still keeping the credited feature.

also that might just be my last.fm trauma

 

[PopGeek]

has voted! Phew!