Is the jury agenda coming full circle now?

[LalehForWD]

This needs to be said: Culture isn't a static feature, it is constantly changing over time and space and may perhaps be understood as the sum of all impressions at a given moment at a specific place. Culture for one person may not be agreed by his neighbour. This is why we have something like Melodifestivalen to select our entry, trying to find a common Swedish denominator to represent us in Eurovision. Every country in Eurovision have their own ways to select their entry and represent their "culture". Now, how on earth do A-lister get the juries to fit into this? Is it likely for example the Italian jury speculates what "culture" Sanna Nielsen represent and in what extent they think it's appropriate for a country like Sweden? Get serious!

The thread topic is obviously grounded in some unarticulated political statement that suggest some kind of conspiracy theory among the juries - the agenda. Do juries have secret meetings as well where they discuss the next steps?

 

[lilka]

This needs to be said: Culture isn't a static feature, it is constantly changing over time and space and may perhaps be understood as the sum of all impressions at a given moment at a specific place. Culture for one person may not be agreed by his neighbour. This is why we have something like Melodifestivalen to select our entry, trying to find a common Swedish denominator to represent us in Eurovision. Every country in Eurovision have their own ways to select their entry and represent their "culture". Now, how on earth do A-lister get the juries to fit into this? 1)Is it likely for example the Italian jury speculates what "culture" Sanna Nielsen represent and in what extent they think it's appropriate for a country like Sweden? Get serious!

The thread topic is obviously grounded in some unarticulated political statement that suggest some kind of conspiracy theory among the juries - the agenda. 2)Do juries have secret meetings as well where they discuss the next steps?

1)Come on, it's not about evaluating scrupulously to what extent a song is appropriate for a country, it's just about introducing some D-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y.
2) I wouldn't be surprised at all.

 

[ParadiseES]

Yes, obviously the 185 different jurors had a conspiracy meeting and decided to destroy certain songs all together. SUUUUURE.

 

[IanP]

I have a solution.

Make all ex-soviets vote and enter as one.

Make all ex Yugoslavs vote and enter as one.

Make Scandinavia vote and enter as one.

They all clearly lick each other's arses so much that I'm sure they wouldn't mind being counted as one as they only seem to want to see each other win (minus Armenia and Azerbaijan). This would eradicate block voting in both juries and televoting. And let's be honest, apart from a few double acts (UK & Ireland, Greece & Cyprus, Malta and Azer.... Oh not anymore LOL(!) ) we don't see block voting on such a massive scale with other countries.

 

[LalehForWD]

1)Come on, it's not about evaluating scrupulously to what extent a song is appropriate for a country, it's just about introducing some D-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y.
2) I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Here are two of five Swedish jury members, both pretty well known on the forum for those who at least listened to this year's Melodifestivalen once - they're both artists participating in Melodifestivalen 2014.

Oscar Zia (17)

Elli Flemström - JEM (23)

My humble theory is that they simply rank the songs after personal music preferences, just like the rest of us. One can always criticise their taste though for what it's worth. As my personal preferences tend to agree with the juries, I thank the gods they're there to counteract the televoter's "diversity" (= Poland).

If everyone would vote with their hearts and ears instead if mixing in politics and patriotism, the juries could indeed be scraped.

 

[GWTW1939]

I find it interesting that in a trial a jury is suppose to come to a consensus and be untied yet for Eurovision a jury is suppose to be all individual and any country jury card that looks all the same is wrong

Perhaps the best thing to do is spilt all the juries up put them in separate rooms so they can't talk to each other and be in contact with members of their own jury. Like one room has judges from Russia, Sweden, Italy, Netherlands and Armenia together, then they can hand in their votes at the end and the EBU officials will count/group by country

 

[greece]

Poor juries...everyone hates you... aah people jury does it's job nothing more

 

[A-lister]

This needs to be said: Culture isn't a static feature, it is constantly changing over time and space and may perhaps be understood as the sum of all impressions at a given moment at a specific place. Culture for one person may not be agreed by his neighbour. This is why we have something like Melodifestivalen to select our entry, trying to find a common Swedish denominator to represent us in Eurovision. Every country in Eurovision have their own ways to select their entry and represent their "culture". Now, how on earth do A-lister get the juries to fit into this? Is it likely for example the Italian jury speculates what "culture" Sanna Nielsen represent and in what extent they think it's appropriate for a country like Sweden? Get serious!

The thread topic is obviously grounded in some unarticulated political statement that suggest some kind of conspiracy theory among the juries - the agenda. Do juries have secret meetings as well where they discuss the next steps?

Not surprised you didn't get my initial post, funny though that someone who screams about "cultural diversity" is against the same in Eurovision. The whole point is that the juries are NOT accepting any cultural diversity, wheres the public (who should have more say) are far more open minded. If anything you'd actually support my cause here, but I'm not surprised though because usually the ones screaming the loudest that they're "open minded to the different", are often not that.

And yes, I truly believe the juries are put here to cater to some kind of western/anglo norm of what the masses in the west could "accept". The result is that everything that is different from that safe norm (and especially anything that celebrating the musical cultural landscape of our continent) are being punished, however if the same countries come back another year and accept defeat and send something fitting to the "norm" set by the jury taste, they might get some jury support.

 

[A-lister]

Yes, obviously the 185 different jurors had a conspiracy meeting and decided to destroy certain songs all together. SUUUUURE.

The results speak for themselves, so the answer is YES.

It's not really a conspiracy per se, it's just the agenda set by EBU to cater to the every day western listener who can't take one second in his/her life to open his/her ear to anything that isn't English or sounding like it could be on their local Adult Contemporary radio channel. What started as a way to cater to western broadcasters in order not to risk them withdrawing, have ended in an all loath for everything not safe and not by western/anglo standards musically.

 

[LalehForWD]

Not surprised you didn't get my initial post, funny though that someone who screams about "cultural diversity" is against the same in Eurovision. The whole point is that the juries are NOT accepting any cultural diversity, wheres the public (who should have more say) are far more open minded. If anything you'd actually support my cause here, but I'm not surprised though because usually the ones screaming the loudest that they're "open minded to the different", are often not that.

And yes, I truly believe the juries are put here to cater to some kind of western/anglo norm of what the masses in the west could "accept". The result is that everything that is different from that safe norm (and especially anything that celebrating the musical cultural landscape of our continent) are being punished, however if the same countries come back another year and accept defeat and send something fitting to the "norm" set by the jury taste, they might get some jury support.

LOL "cultural diversity". I have difficulties to keep up into developments in Swedish cultural life. There's simply no time/energy left for anything else. Luckily much is shared with the rest of the western world, so it's kind of giving you a sense of internationalism and a broader community. Yes, we're living in a global media world dominated by Hollywood. This is hardly news for anyone. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I need something more genuine and emotional and intellectual challenging. Some periods my musical input is 100% the fantastic Johann Sebastian, sometimes its Spotify tracks top list. It's often said Scandinavians are the most "Americanized" people in the world, far far more than most Americans. For me, it's not a problem being part of this western culture and I cannot see any conflicts in this huge relationship. As you so well know, there are very strong Swedish "filters"/preferences to the outside world. Often we're just picking the raisins we like out of the cake and thus creating some kind of cultural mix with strong local influences - and isn't that exactly what we've done for centuries/millennia in Sweden?

I find your approach to the subject utopistic and I can vaguely identify the ideological political sources to it. No, I don't support even a tiny bit of it.

 

[A-lister]

LOL "cultural diversity". I have difficulties to keep up into developments in Swedish cultural life. There's simply no time/energy left for anything else. Luckily much is shared with the rest of the western world, so it's kind of giving you a sense of internationalism and a broader community. Yes, we're living in a global media world dominated by Hollywood. This is hardly news for anyone. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I need something more genuine and emotional and intellectual challenging. Some periods my musical input is 100% the fantastic Johann Sebastian, sometimes its Spotify tracks top list. It's often said Scandinavians are the most "Americanized" people in the world, far far more than most Americans. For me, it's not a problem being part of this western culture and I cannot see any conflicts in this huge relationship. As you so well know, there are very strong Swedish "filters"/preferences to the outside world. Often we're just picking the raisins we like out of the cake and thus creating some kind of cultural mix with strong local influences - and isn't that exactly what we've done for centuries/millennia in Sweden?

I find your approach to the subject utopistic and I can vaguely identify the ideological political sources to it. No, I don't support even a tiny bit of it.

As expected, the ones screaming about cultural diversity the loudest, often don't live as they preach.

I'm not surprised though you're against European diversity, a bit surprised though that you'd support multi billion dollar businesses (= Hollywood, global/American record labels) setting the norm for what should be acceptable or not, even in a contest like Eurovision where the purpose should be a celebration of all Europe and not just a very limited part of it.

But each to their own I guess. I think the juries kill European diversity and I find this musical homogenizing and premiering of everything western and standard safe is truly ruining the whole spirit and fun of this contest. It just takes away the soul of it. I believe in public choices, not the choices of a few narrow-minded people who are only here to punish everything local.

 

[LalehForWD]

As expected, the ones screaming about cultural diversity the loudest, often don't live as they preach.

I never screamed about "cultural diversity" :? Hell, I don't even support the concept! As a concept it's equally shallow and simplifying as the stupid "multiculturalism". What does it even mean? To me these are pure political expressions of very questionable value.

I'm not surprised though you're against European diversity, a bit surprised though that you'd support multi billion dollar businesses (= Hollywood, global/American record labels) setting the norm for what should be acceptable or not, even in a contest like Eurovision where the purpose should be a celebration of all Europe and not just a very limited part of it.

I'm surely not "against European diversity". I cannot see what 100% Eurovision televote with strong east European nationalistic bias will do for "European diversity" though.

But each to their own I guess. I think the juries kill European diversity and I find this musical homogenizing and premiering of everything western and standard safe is truly ruining the whole spirit and fun of this contest. It just takes away the soul of it. I believe in public choices, not the choices of a few narrow-minded people who are only here to punish everything local.

Perhaps you're looking for something which neither is realistic or wanted by most people. "European diversity" is a very abstract concept without a clear definition and probably with little relation to real conditions in current Europe. If you're looking for how things should be according to some ideals, you indeed looking for an utopia.

 

[A-lister]

^
One thing is for sure, when the juries kill the chances of everything that doesn't sound like it could play on a standard western adult contemporary channel, then there's no European diversity (regardless of its definition).

To me it means hearing music in ESC the way it's heard across Europe, and with that I don't mean the American/UK/Swedish stuff that are global, but more a representation of the local music scenes. That is what Eurovision should be all about imo. When countries are proudly showcasing their cultures or languages, the juries seem to kill them. However the public have an ear for different stuff, that's why I believe in them more than the narrow-minded juries.

 

[LalehForWD]

^
One thing is for sure, when the juries kill the chances of everything that doesn't sound like it could play on a standard western adult contemporary channel, then there's no European diversity (regardless of its definition).

To me it means hearing music in ESC the way it's heard across Europe, and with that I don't mean the American/UK/Swedish stuff that are global, but more a representation of the local music scenes. That is what Eurovision should be all about imo. When countries are proudly showcasing their cultures or languages, the juries seem to kill them. However the public have an ear for different stuff, that's why I believe in them more than the narrow-minded juries.

OK this makes sense and I strongly agree with you that Eurovision should promote "representation of the local music scenes". This is what we're doing successfully in Sweden IMO. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good. Some broadcasters surely doesn't think like this though, most notably the BBC.

 

[ParadiseES]

The results speak for themselves, so the answer is YES.

Okay then