Current Member Roster & How to join the Waiting List

[Stargazer]

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01 Adamsburg (NSC 2 - NSC 91, NSC 177 - current)
02 Aimūlli (NSC 129 - current)
03 Bála Kunmenai (NSC 231 - current)
04 Balearica Island (NSC 42 - current)
05 Begonia (NSC 5 - NSC 48, NSC 122 - current)
06 Belvist (NSC 5 - NSC 58, NSC 125 - NSC 127, NSC 191 - current)
07 Biflovatia (NSC 108 - current)
08 Calypso (NSC 7 - current)
09 Cherniya (NSC 92 - current)
10 Comino (NSC 7 - NSC 17, NSC 27 - current)
11 Cydoni-Gibberia (NSC 20 - current)
12 Dalisska (NSC 24 - NSC 90, NSC 118 - NSC 151, NSC 201 - current)
13 Denmark of Spears (NSC 90 - NSC 218, NSC 221 - current) ◆
14 Doire (NSC 74 - current)
15 Effiland (NSC 8 - NSC 53, NSC 206 - current)
16 Elvaci (NSC 102 - NSC 217, NSC 223 - current) ◆
17 Endórë (NSC 209 - current)
18 Federal Republic of Meridia (NSC 92 - NSC 122, NSC 156 - NSC 218, NSC 230 - current)
19 Fervorosia (NSC 21 - current)
20 Fierraria (NSC 218 - current) failed to confirm NSC 234
21 Grand Duchy of Strenci (NSC 226 - current)
22 Griffin Empire (NSC 204 - current)
23 Halito (NSC 10 - current)
24 Illumia (NSC 83 - NSC 130, NSC 153 - NSC 156, NSC 219 - current)
25 Insomnéa (NSC 96 - current)
26 Kamandé (NSC 57 - NSC 74, NSC 124 - current)
27 Konthena (NSC 218 - current)
28 Kordavian Islands (NSC 109 - current)
29 Marcobia (NSC 227 - current)
30 MatiMati (NSC 154 - current)
31 Necluda (NSC 227 - current)
32 New Acadia (NSC 52 - NSC 154, NSC 211 - current)
33 New Bander State (NSC 149 - current)
34 Öösingimäed (NSC 51 - NSC 120, NSC 209 - current)
35 Orangualia (NSC 56 - current)
36 Papendink (NSC 83 - NSC 176, NSC 224 - current)
37 Perryfornia (NSC 65 - current)
38 Rahasia-Diati (NSC 148 - current)
39 Redwood Republic (NSC 177 - current)
40 Rehi Kaita (NSC 228 - current)
41 Reym-L-Dneurb (NSC 1 - NSC 52, NSC 65 - NSC 152, NSC 206 - current)
42 Roseland (NSC 56 - current)
43 Rumia (NSC 55 - current)
44 Sakuralia (NSC 122 - current)
45 Serenes (NSC 143 - current) has to skip NSC 234 ◆
46 Södermalm (NSC 216 - current)
47 Svobodnia (NSC 169 - current)
48 Szimbaya Kingdom (NSC 188 - current)
49 Tamausia & Deltannor (NSC 188 - current)
50 Tanoiro (NSC 176 - current)
51 Tcher-Racoi (NSC 203 - current)
52 Tír an Abhainn (NSC 16 - current) ◆
53 Trollheimr (NSC 105 - current)
54 Ugaly (NSC 4 - current)
55 Vylkuzeme (NSC 109 - current)
56 Waiting Iist of Shelley & Nici (NSC 51 - NSC 168, NSC 222 - current)
57 Xhuxhmaxhuxh (NSC 39 - NSC 62, NSC 119 - NSC 153, NSC 219 - current)
58 Xochimilia (NSC 219 - current)
59 Yaponesia (NSC 6 - current)
60 Zombira (NSC 10 - NSC 170, NSC 219 - current)

Last update: November 8th, 2024

Text version of the roster for copy/paste purposes

Adamsburg Aimūlli Bála Kunmenai Balearica Island Begonia Belvist Biflovatia Calypso Cherniya Comino Cydoni-Gibberia Dalisska Denmark of Spears Doire Effiland Elvaci Endórë Federal Republic of Meridia Fervorosia Fierraria Grand Duchy of Strenci Griffin Empire Halito Illumia Insomnéa Kamandé Konthena Kordavian Islands Marcobia MatiMati Necluda New Acadia New Bander State Öösingimäed Orangualia Papendink Perryfornia Rahasia-Diati Redwood Republic Rehi Kaita Reym-L-Dneurb Roseland Rumia Sakuralia Serenes Södermalm Svobodnia Szimbaya Kingdom Tamausia & Deltannor Tanoiro Tcher-Racoi Tír an Abhainn Trollheimr Ugaly Vylkuzeme Waiting Iist of Shelley & Nici Xhuxhmaxhuxh Xochimilia Yaponesia Zombira

@Schlagerman1 @Territrius @Sultana @Morty @pjelacki @Milos-BC @nofuxCZ @renzo @Yoni @spiluke @Sean @Sabrewulf238 @apasionata @doctormalisimo @Barish @Lonter @HayashiM @Gera11 @pyryniemi @Fierro @Scania @randajad @berlyda @Luki @Mozz @Veliky @Zeus @EurovisionSmile @Nicholas123 @Marcos C @Mattan @Judas @Canuck @ferret @iowacorn @Leaf @Paper7 @Splash @Veronika @Charly @MiraShadowMan @anselm @FabiESC @dogmeat @esc87fan @Karhu @Ekholmia @Rmetr0 @marc @theCONWEL @Ana Raquel @TomCherson @My Star @Stargazer @Fearnavigatr @as78 @strajker @Otto @Buranovskiy @takeru @SpZ

Clicking on a flag icon will redirect you to the respective country's official thread.
Nations that miss 2 editions in a row will be removed and replaced with the nation at the top of the Waiting List (see below).

RESOURCES

FLAGS || POTS || MAP || WIKI || DATABASE

01. Destroyer (United Kingdom of Destrion) NSC 234? WLSC 276, 277, 278
02. marduk (Vermilion) NSC 234? WLSC 276, 277, 278
03. Alevender (Rombandrums) NSC 234?
04. Kimrt (Kimmystan) WLSC 276, 277, 278
05. Aditya (Carpentaria)
06. soundofsilence (Afnia)
07. Rxllinson (Dwyforland)
08. Ewigkeit (Emsfrynt) WLSC 276, 277, 278
09. Poky (Principales di Pohovaradin) failed to vote NSC 233 WLSC 278

Last update: November 7th, 2024

Nations or members in cyan have entered NSC at least once before.


Waiting list (WL) rules:

• Voting in each final of NSC as part of the waiting list jury is compulsory.
• Any waiting list nations who fail to vote will be moved 2 places down on the list.
• Nations who fail to vote 2 finals in a row will be removed from the list.
• Under certain circumstances waiting list nations can take a break from voting in the finals if a solid reason is given. During that period of time the position of the nation on the waiting list remains frozen and it can move neither up nor down.
• Nations with 'NSC XXX' beside them will debut/return in the next contest.
• Nations with 'NSC XXX?' beside them can send a reserve entry to the next contest.

​

First of all, welcome to NSC! If you have any questions regarding the contest, feel free to post them in this thread or ask one of the mods: @Stargazer, @berlyda or @Veronika.

In order to get familiar with the contest, please take a look at the RULES!

If you want to apply for a place in NSC (or if you want to return), simply send a PM to Stargazer - you'll be added to the waiting list (see above).

Please note that you are probably going to be waiting for a long time as there is a strong demand for spots on the roster. In the meantime, you may enter the Waiting List contest, vote in the semi-finals of NSC and take part in the various spin-off contests if you wish to. Don't forget that voting in the finals is compulsory.

And most importantly: Have fun!

 

[doctormalisimo]

Out of interest, is there appetite to remove the WL voting requirement for the final?

I can see why people don't like it, but if you hate ghost nations on the WL, then get ready for a whole lot more if people don't even need to log on to the forum in order to stay on the WL. Is there a fairer way to keep the WL leaned and stop it being clogged with inactive people?

 

[berlyda]

Pyreica did some digging in the forum to see how it came to be that the WL is treated so unfairly. She can probably provide you with links to such threads. General gist of it is that in the past NSC was very elitist and preferred to wall the contest off from new blood. With some of the boomers leaving the winds of change are blowing.

I'm not sure which threads you are talking about, but you have to take old threads with a pinch of salt, because we were (almost) all teenagers back then, producing what you might expect to come out of teenage brains.

In any case, yes, NSC has a history of being resistant to change. People do not want the contest to change in any fundamental way that would make it unwieldy to host/participate in (e.g. adding a third semi) or in a way that would harm song diversity by making the contest overly competitive (e.g. having a promotion/relegation system) or in a way that would reduce user autonomy (e.g. having larger juries). I don't really think the winds of change are blowing in this respect. The majority of people on the current roster had to deal with the long WL themselves, and yet they still tend to vote against such changes.

However, I do believe people might accept some smaller change, like what Vaso is suggesting in the WLSC subforum. I have a lot of potential rule changes lined up, but it's on my to-do list.

 

[Leydan]

Out of interest, is there appetite to remove the WL voting requirement for the final?

I can see why people don't like it, but if you hate ghost nations on the WL, then get ready for a whole lot more if people don't even need to log on to the forum in order to stay on the WL. Is there a fairer way to keep the WL leaned and stop it being clogged with inactive people?

The easiest way would be to introduce a time registered on the forum/post count. That way inactive people couldn't just rock up and randomly join in.

 

[doctormalisimo]

The easiest way would be to introduce a time registered on the forum/post count. That way inactive people couldn't just rock up and randomly join in.

With all due respect to certain members currently on the roster, we've seen long-established forum members join and leave the WL loads of times, so I don't think post count is a great measure of how likely someone is to make it. We might as well go one step further and make application by invitation only to weed out pesky strangers who we don't know

I'm not against removing the WL voting requirement btw, I have no problem with ghost players. I love you, ghosties

 

[Schlagerman1]

I'm not sure which threads you are talking about, but you have to take old threads with a pinch of salt, because we were (almost) all teenagers back then, producing what you might expect to come out of teenage brains.

In any case, yes, NSC has a history of being resistant to change. People do not want the contest to change in any fundamental way that would make it unwieldy to host/participate in (e.g. adding a third semi) or in a way that would harm song diversity by making the contest overly competitive (e.g. having a promotion/relegation system) or in a way that would reduce user autonomy (e.g. having larger juries). I don't really think the winds of change are blowing in this respect. The majority of people on the current roster had to deal with the long WL themselves, and yet they still tend to vote against such changes.

However, I do believe people might accept some smaller change, like what Vaso is suggesting in the WLSC subforum. I have a lot of potential rule changes lined up, but it's on my to-do list.

Yes the system of 2 semis with maximum 27 songs and a final of 28 (where six of them were PQ) was an idea by me and the owner of the now defunct nation of Swelatie that was later voted for by all the countries competing at the time. We saw the problems with the microstate system and took the advantage of having the perfect even number of 60. I am open for changes of this system, since it is very old (and it would be interesting to have a change of some sort), but it is important to note that it has to work for the host. We all have personal lives, school/work, other interests that still has to take the first hand over NSC. To make it bigger might make it harder for the hosts. If we could find a way to increase the numbers and not make it too troublesome for the host and also still make it fun enough to compete in, then great, but so far, noone has really brought an idea that works in the long run, that is worth to try longer than a few editions. Maybe we do someday, and if we do find it, then yes, I might vote for it, but for now, it is what it is.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

The easiest way would be to introduce a time registered on the forum/post count. That way inactive people couldn't just rock up and randomly join in.

Does that assure continued activity though? It only tells us a person's history, a member who joined five years ago could just as well be more likely to ghost us than a newly registered but highly enthustiastic soul.

 

[Leydan]

Does that assure continued activity though? It only tells us a person's history, a member who joined five years ago could just as well be more likely to ghost us as a newly registered but highly enthustiastic soul.

It wasn't really a serious suggestion, just the easiest way to cut off inactives - especially those with 0 post counts. Making people post on the forum & spend time can only increase the likelihood of them being more active. You are right though, it isn't so very clear cut or a guarantee.

 

[Veronika]

Okay, let me add a bit of my opinion about that whole WL drama.

To be honest, some of the WLers' constant complaints about their waiting time and treating WL like it's some torture started kinda irritate me. I find it a bit egoistic and even disrespectful towards the contest and its long-established rules. I think if participating yourself and achieving great results are the main (and probably only) goals for you guys - you don't really love NSC and tbh don't really deserve spots in the roster.
Have you ever thought about the greatest joy of listening and voting in the contest? And what about the greatest joy of discovering new music and gradually getting to know every nation better, exploring them? What about an even greater joy of falling in love with some certain nation, impatiently waiting for its entries every edition and cheering for it like for yourself? I'm just taking it from my own experience, it all happened to me when I was on the WL, that was what I felt. I waited for 2 years, but I had an amazing time and zero complaints. I just couldn't wait to listen to every final, to rank every song, to vote, to get to know the contest, its history and every nation more and more, to get acquainted with new amazing people, after all. And finally joining the roster was like a nice bonus to me, not like a long awaited relief from torment, for sure. I was enjoying the contest with all of my heart from the very beginning, despite not participating. And as for some current WLers - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into NSC and its spirit.

I genuinely think, that in the WL system nothing should be changed and you have to deal with it. If you really love NSC, then you'll truly enjoy your time on the WL, no matter how much time you'll have to wait. If waiting is painful for you - then this contest is simply not your thing. Nobody forces you to stay - you're absolutely free to leave and pick a different contest. Thankfully there are lots of them. Anyway it's better than constantly whining, complaining and trying to ruin the long-established specificity of WL. This behavior doesn't look nice.
I'm fully aware that my opinion may be really unpopular, but anyway I decided to share it, because the whole situation just makes me feel quite depressed. I don't want to waste my time on arguing, because I still got so much more useful things to do (including useful things for NSC), I was just speaking my mind.
Anyway I truly believe that currently there are quite a lot of WLers, who treat the contest like I did while being a WLer. Hopefully.

 

[HayashiM]

Okay, let me add a bit of my opinion about that whole WL drama.

To be honest, some of the WLers' constant complaints about their waiting time and treating WL like it's some torture started kinda irritate me. I find it a bit egoistic and even disrespectful towards the contest and its long-established rules. I think if participating yourself and achieving great results are the main (and probably only) goals for you guys - you don't really love NSC and tbh don't really deserve spots in the roster.
Have you ever thought about the greatest joy of listening and voting in the contest? And what about the greatest joy of discovering new music and gradually getting to know every nation better, exploring them? What about an even greater joy of falling in love with some certain nation, impatiently waiting for its entries every edition and cheering for it like for yourself? I'm just taking it from my own experience, it all happened to me when I was on the WL, that was what I felt. I waited for 2 years, but I had an amazing time and zero complaints. I just couldn't wait to listen to every final, to rank every song, to vote, to get to know the contest, its history and every nation more and more, to get acquainted with new amazing people, after all. And finally joining the roster was like a nice bonus to me, not like a long awaited relief from torment, for sure. I was enjoying the contest with all of my heart from the very beginning, despite not participating. And as for some current WLers - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into NSC and its spirit.

I genuinely think, that in the WL system nothing should be changed and you have to deal with it. If you really love NSC, then you'll truly enjoy your time on the WL, no matter how much time you'll have to wait. If waiting is painful for you - then this contest is simply not your thing. Nobody forces you to stay - you're absolutely free to leave and pick a different contest. Thankfully there are lots of them. Anyway it's better than constantly whining, complaining and trying to ruin the long-established specificity of WL. This behavior doesn't look nice.
I'm fully aware that my opinion may be really unpopular, but anyway I decided to share it, because the whole situation just makes me feel quite depressed. I don't want to waste my time on arguing, because I still got so much more useful things to do (including useful things for NSC), I was just speaking my mind.
Anyway I truly believe that currently there are quite a lot of WLers, who treat the contest like I did while being a WLer. Hopefully.

Going after established members and calling them "old farts" is quite a stretch, I will certainly give you that. Really not cool imo. Everyone should be treated with respect, NSCrs and WLrs both - eventually, some of us will share Natia together.

However, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I am here to have fun. I am certainly here to get inspired by music I wouldn't have otherwise played/found on my own, I am here to appreciate what others have to offer, and maybe also share what I have. I like the storytelling/roleplay aspect to NSC, and the dedication some show when fleshing out their countries lore. I enjoy listening to NSC finals - though it is time consuming when one likes to do the ranking properly - and all the other aspects you describe.

But I like when things make sense, and to me the current form of WL voting really doesn't - see my latest posts in the other thread. I don't like being obliged to vote and spend long time to do my rankings only to see most of my votes thrown in the dustbin. Sure, maybe you once were ok with that particular point or didn't really give it a thought, but that doesn't mean others have to feel the same way. If this voting is voluntary - fine. But it feels really stupid to do when the voting itself is mostly pointless and mandatory. And I don't see the "it's necessary to ensure we don't have ghosts" narrative as valid, as there are also other ways to achieve such goal.

I strongly disagree with "if you don't like the rules as they are, NSC is not a contest for you". Rules evolve, they weren't always like they are. People aren't bound to approach the contest the way you do. I think it's nice to let people have fun on their own terms, especially when it doesn't really hurt your own fun. I don't see how proposals in the other thread hurt the spirit of NSC - all of these changes mainly concern the WL and only impact the NSC in a very marginal way. I can see how people are afraid of getting a third semi, but I don't think anyone really wants that, I certainly don't.

NSC is first and foremost about fun, and not about being an exclusive rigid cult, right?

 

[Edweis]

Okay, let me add a bit of my opinion about that whole WL drama.

To be honest, some of the WLers' constant complaints about their waiting time and treating WL like it's some torture started kinda irritate me. I find it a bit egoistic and even disrespectful towards the contest and its long-established rules. I think if participating yourself and achieving great results are the main (and probably only) goals for you guys - you don't really love NSC and tbh don't really deserve spots in the roster.
Have you ever thought about the greatest joy of listening and voting in the contest? And what about the greatest joy of discovering new music and gradually getting to know every nation better, exploring them? What about an even greater joy of falling in love with some certain nation, impatiently waiting for its entries every edition and cheering for it like for yourself? I'm just taking it from my own experience, it all happened to me when I was on the WL, that was what I felt. I waited for 2 years, but I had an amazing time and zero complaints. I just couldn't wait to listen to every final, to rank every song, to vote, to get to know the contest, its history and every nation more and more, to get acquainted with new amazing people, after all. And finally joining the roster was like a nice bonus to me, not like a long awaited relief from torment, for sure. I was enjoying the contest with all of my heart from the very beginning, despite not participating. And as for some current WLers - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into NSC and its spirit.

I genuinely think, that in the WL system nothing should be changed and you have to deal with it. If you really love NSC, then you'll truly enjoy your time on the WL, no matter how much time you'll have to wait. If waiting is painful for you - then this contest is simply not your thing. Nobody forces you to stay - you're absolutely free to leave and pick a different contest. Thankfully there are lots of them. Anyway it's better than constantly whining, complaining and trying to ruin the long-established specificity of WL. This behavior doesn't look nice.
I'm fully aware that my opinion may be really unpopular, but anyway I decided to share it, because the whole situation just makes me feel quite depressed. I don't want to waste my time on arguing, because I still got so much more useful things to do (including useful things for NSC), I was just speaking my mind.
Anyway I truly believe that currently there are quite a lot of WLers, who treat the contest like I did while being a WLer. Hopefully.

I don't think I understand your post. Or to be more accurate, I do, I just don't understand why you're trying to deny the fact we are all self-centered.

I could tell you that forcing people in the WL to vote just so they can 'enjoy our music' is egoistic as well. It is. As not wanting to vote is said the contest is too. Nothing wrong with that.
People in general have a hard time admitting they do or think things for selfish reasons. But it's normal, it's human. We're all trying to survive in the world and hence are all taking decisions for our well-being.

Why would people want to join NSC ?

- because they want to create their own country and being represented by it
- they want to send whatever they like, without time or country rules
- they like the songs displayed here
- they like the community

These are all egoistic reasons. Because they benefit ourselves first and foremost

See, you only talked about 1 of the reasons. Is it okay to base the biggest rule of the WL on that sole reason ? Assuming people even like the music represented in NSC in general. Some on the main roster might not, but they still stay because they find solace in the other reasons. Are they less legitimate than those who stay for the music ? You'll agree with me in saying that no, they aren't. So why should it be different for WL ?

For anyone who's interested, I talked more about all of it here : https://www.escunited.com/forum/thr...thoughts-on-this-concept-🤍.22717/post-2146711

I see you didn't have a problem with that, good for you. Really, I'm glad to hear that. But you don't have to discard the opinion of those who don't feel the same way. I myself didn't suffer much during WL time, but because I had WLSC and joined other contests in the meantime, doesn't mean that for others it should be the same. Like Hayashi said, rules change, they're made to evolve with the people. Keeping things as they are because it has always been that way and just 'suck it up' is an awful way to look at things in general.
And I must say, these rules wouldn't even impact NSC much, only the WL. So, what is more egoistic : changing things so people don't have to do something they don't want to (and is irrelevant to their love to the contest, ie reasons above), or keeping things as they are because you weren't bothered by it ?

 

[Jho]

Yes, it sucks to wait but I also want to share with you the music that I like and I don't think that's being self-centered.

Changing the topic, if there is one thing that I dislike is the small amount of time we have to listen to the songs. Only one week for each show is not enough imo

 

[Brandt]

I mean I waited two years until I made it to the main roster. And the entire two years weren't exactly a "waiting" process for me. It was long enough for me to discover new music and engage with different artists that I would otherwise have no idea of their existence. I get the enthusiasm of sharing your own music, but there is WLSC for it anyway. I don't get the notion of "rules evolve and things ought to change". While it is true, I don't think there is anything to be changed to make things better in this particular situation.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Okay, let me add a bit of my opinion about that whole WL drama.

To be honest, some of the WLers' constant complaints about their waiting time and treating WL like it's some torture started kinda irritate me. I find it a bit egoistic and even disrespectful towards the contest and its long-established rules. I think if participating yourself and achieving great results are the main (and probably only) goals for you guys - you don't really love NSC and tbh don't really deserve spots in the roster.
Have you ever thought about the greatest joy of listening and voting in the contest? And what about the greatest joy of discovering new music and gradually getting to know every nation better, exploring them? What about an even greater joy of falling in love with some certain nation, impatiently waiting for its entries every edition and cheering for it like for yourself? I'm just taking it from my own experience, it all happened to me when I was on the WL, that was what I felt. I waited for 2 years, but I had an amazing time and zero complaints. I just couldn't wait to listen to every final, to rank every song, to vote, to get to know the contest, its history and every nation more and more, to get acquainted with new amazing people, after all. And finally joining the roster was like a nice bonus to me, not like a long awaited relief from torment, for sure. I was enjoying the contest with all of my heart from the very beginning, despite not participating. And as for some current WLers - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into NSC and its spirit.

I genuinely think, that in the WL system nothing should be changed and you have to deal with it. If you really love NSC, then you'll truly enjoy your time on the WL, no matter how much time you'll have to wait. If waiting is painful for you - then this contest is simply not your thing. Nobody forces you to stay - you're absolutely free to leave and pick a different contest. Thankfully there are lots of them. Anyway it's better than constantly whining, complaining and trying to ruin the long-established specificity of WL. This behavior doesn't look nice.
I'm fully aware that my opinion may be really unpopular, but anyway I decided to share it, because the whole situation just makes me feel quite depressed. I don't want to waste my time on arguing, because I still got so much more useful things to do (including useful things for NSC), I was just speaking my mind.
Anyway I truly believe that currently there are quite a lot of WLers, who treat the contest like I did while being a WLer. Hopefully.

This just reads like "You're gonna take it and you're gonna like it lol." to me.

Also I think it's interesting how you bring up the WL only thinking about themselves because I don't get the impression that people (or, enough people at least) on the main NSC roster really think about the waiting list all that much either. Otherwise they wouldn't keep dismissing and waffling on the issue every time it came up. (It's definitely come up before, multiple times)

I think it's in contradiction to the spirit of NSC, to see the waiting list swell to such high numbers, waiting times stretch to over a year and do absolutely nothing about it. (and not just that but to also speak so strongly and dismissively about how people should be grateful for even being on the waiting list) I really hope this isn't the spirit of NSC because it's a bad spirit.

I wouldn't even suggest fully fixing the issue (far from it), because I don't think that can happen. There will always be a waiting list as long as this contest is popular. I just think, as a show of good faith NSCers on the main list should at least be willing to experiment. I don't think that's asking for a lot in the slightest.

I really don't understand why it's so hard for people to attempt change or experiment. In the end we're playing a contest on the internet for fun, nobody really loses anything or is significantly affected by changing or trying to experiment with different methods. There's no money invested in this contest. If something goes wrong......so what? We'll learn from it and move on, doing it better the next time. (We'll be able to, the contest won't get cancelled just because there was a mishap) We can try new things, nobody will get hurt by it. Has anyone thought that we might as a community come out of the other side of trying something new for the better?

It's honestly really disheartening to see how disinterested, dismissive and resistant some people are to this issue, even to the point of being full on disdainful to the people bringing it up. Wanting to experiment and try new things with the waiting list doesn't make you against the spirit of NSC.

Personally I think the spirit of NSC should involve doing whatever we can to involve as many people as possible in the main event, even if that only amounts to a token Waiting List slot in the main contest. I think giving the "Waiting List" a place in the contest would give waiting listers a stronger sense of participation, it's not about winning. It's about just "being there". If all people on the waiting list wanted was to win they'd just compete in WLSC or as you said, go participate in another contest. They're on the waiting list because they want to participate in NSC. I think as a community we should be willing to give that to them, even if it's just as a token participation.

Probably the only thing I agree with you on is that this topic is exhausting and kinda depressing.

 

[Ana Raquel]

And as for some current WLers - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into NSC and its spirit.

it's harder for the WL to be ~into nsc~ when it feels that their opinions are not taken into account and that their presence is being brought down on behalf of older entities that are not even on this forum anymore

also, don't forget this sentence can easily be reversed: And as for some current members of the roster - I have an impression that you think only about yourselves, you're not into what new nations can show and surprise us.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

If I may interject. I'm always open for a good discussion and fair consideration of any rule suggestion, and I'm sure most other roster members are. There's absolutely no lack of sympathy for the WL plight, but please also understand that NSCers on the roster are just ordinary people who are here to have fun, and a lot of us are understandably on edge when there have been posts that pretty much villainize us and paint false narratives about elitism or isolationism. There's pent up frustration about being misunderstood happening on both sides.

A lot of it has also been constructive though, and I'm sure pretty much all of us agree we should keep it that way and move forward to a good solution together. Keep at it!

 

[Canuck]

We can all go back and forth with our impassioned posts, but what it really comes down to is whether we want to open a can of worms with WL reform and rules. Just because some current nations were once stuck for WL for two years does not mean that everyone in the future needs to go through the same.

Back to the original reason this discussion started - does NSC want to allow someone to skip the WL and join an already-established nation?

And for this one I would ask why not? The WL is long enough as is, so why are we going to make someone join it if they can instead join someone already participating? It has already been established in the case of Aimulli that the current owner would not be withdrawing, so who the hell cares how they choose to manage it?

The most ‘egoistic’ (since that word has been thrown around a bit these past few posts) thing about this contest is that most of our ‘nations’ are only one person! We share our own personalized music. If someone wants to share that experience, what’s the problem with it?

Regarding broader reform— The way I see it, a modest & reasonable expansion of the contest to allow more people to participate is a natural step forward for NSC and is really the only way to fix the wait times (the current roster rules are already quite strict).
This was something we discussed at length a few years ago and I don’t remember if the conversation died or went to vote & lost, but it obviously went nowhere. I don’t know if we’re concerned about lower quality of music, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with shaking the perception of NSC being overly exclusive — which, lets be honest, is a very real perception whether we like it or not. But this is up to NSC’s current roster to decide.

Anyway, I’m just a WLer right now so I don’t even know how much my opinions even matter with this!

 

[Veronika]

Just to clarify: I was talking about one particular person, who expresses total dissatisfaction with waiting and overall treats NSC with contempt (you all probably know who it is) and ones with a similar attitude.
I guess too many people took my words personally.
I must add that I respect the WLers and didn't want to offend anyone. I just shared what I'm feeling personally.

 

[theditz83]

Is anyone having hellish deja-vu reading this whole conversation unfolding? It feels like only a few months back that we were having a similar debate that went the exact same way and resulted in no change. But then again, I'm getting old and time is flying so much quicker than it should

I have no further insights when it comes to a solution to this issue, but are we going to work out the Aimulli situation first maybe?

 

[Morty]

This discussion tends to pop up at some point every time the WL is getting long, we have heated discussions about it, vote about something, it fails to pass, and everything lurks back into the shadows. The rules about the WL are still the same now as they were back when I joined, and I've been frustrated by the general unwillingness among roster members to make changes to this contest. "If it ain't broken, don't fix it", I get that. But if it wasn't at least a bit broken, would we get this discussion over and over again?

When I joined the WL, it was really small, and I waited for 2 editions before I could join. If the waiting time had been up to a year back then, or even longer, I probably wouldn't have bothered. I have a lot of respect for anyone who's willing to go thru that. Sure, now there's the WLSC to keep people occupied, which in my case would have helped, but still, looking at a waiting time for more than a year, Balearica Island wouldn't have been here. I know my entries are in general not that interesting to everyone here, my results are proof of that, but I like to think that my little island in the south adds something to this contest. So I fear that the long WL is making NSC less diverse, as it would stop people like me from ever joining. But I hope I'm wrong about that.

Looking at the database, the roster has been at or around 60 people since the mid/late 20s. That's a long time ago. Everyone who signed up after that has been ok with having semis of up to 27 entries. I have seen the argument that there would always be someone skipping editions, so 27 would be an absolute max in each semi, but still, it's something we all signed up for. So I'm once again (it was already suggested in the other thread) going to suggest that we let WL nations fill in the blanks every edition, so that we get those 27 entries to listen to in each semi. Maybe that means that some will choose not to reju vote (too many entries, not enough time), but that also means that the votes from those who do manage to reju vote will have a higher impact on the reju score. I think that will fix a lot of the problem, and considering we all signed up for that amount of entries, it shouldn't be very controversial.

 

[berlyda]

Back to the original reason this discussion started - does NSC want to allow someone to skip the WL and join an already-established nation?

And for this one I would ask why not? The WL is long enough as is, so why are we going to make someone join it if they can instead join someone already participating? It has already been established in the case of Aimulli that the current owner would not be withdrawing, so who the hell cares how they choose to manage it?

I think the problem in this specific case is that the nation of Aimulli hasn't really had a joint ownership at all, but rather the ownership of the nation has been changing hands repeatedly, with the convenient result that Alex/Nicolas gets to skip the WL each time and also have full control over the nation, until they get bored and decide to give it to the other person. While Nicolas does not intend on withdrawing permanently, he has already said that he believes Alex should have full control over Aimulli. So this case is not as simple as just inviting someone to share the experience.