Controversial - Does Race Matter in ESC

[Romeo]

I was talking with a friend a few days ago but I have been debating whether to open a thread about it because it may cause controversy but I thought I would bring it up..

In ESC history, only 1 black person has won the contest and that was in 2001 (Dave Benton) with 5 white guys alongside him.

And correct me if I am wrong but was there not a big deal made out of 2012?

Does the colour of someones skin matter in ESC?

 

[Romeo]

Feel free to delete if admin feel it is too controversial

 

[Salmon]

In ESC history, only 1 black person has won the contest

Well, how many black people have participated in the ESC history? Not very many, as it seems to me, and so this isn't a big surprise...

 

[Romeo]

Well, how many black people have participated in the ESC history? Not very many, as it seems to me, and so this isn't a big surprise...

There has been Jade Ewen who did quite well (5th)
Edsillia who did well (before televoting and then flopped with televoting)
Glennis Grace who should have made the final
Jessy Matador who should have done a lot better!
Stella Mwagi who was a fan favourite but flopped (understandably though IMO)
Imaani (2nd) before televoting was used by all
Andy Abraham (last) but the song was shocking
Afro-Dite were among the favourites and flopped
Eddie Butler great song but flopped
etc...

I was just wondering do people think it could effect this year

 

[CaraMia]

I don't think Loreen is white. Her skin colour is not very dark but she looks quite african to me (especially if you see her before having straight hair). And her dancer was definitely black. So, I would say race doesn't matter in ESC.

I also remember that discussion about Gaitana representing Ukraine (like you said), but I think that was mainly a thing discussed by Ukrainians. Usually Eastern European countries are not as open to people of different races as Western European countries. But I would say that in ESC itself race doesn't matter.

 

[anto475]

ESCInsight did an excellent article on this topic actually. Tbh I would've thought that the European people would be more racist towards people from Muslim countries, however we put a half-Lebanese/Palestinian man in 3rd place in 2011, an Iranian man representing a predominantly Muslim county to 3rd again in 2009, we elected an ethnically-Moroccan lady to win in 2012 while also putting through an Iranian-born man to the finals. Then there's the success of Turkey and Azerbaijan, although the latter is questionable.

To address the list you just put up there, I wouldn't blame all of the failures there on race tbh. I think Edsilia should have placed higher maybe, but maybe not qualified, 2007 was a very strong year. Also I don't think Jessy Matador could've done better, it's not a very Eurovision song that he sung. Also I wouldn't call 8th place a flop tbh, Afro-Dite did well! Although I'm sure race played a role there. Eddie Butler's song was easily forgettable though.

One noticeable non-white success story of the past decade though would have been Chanee from Denmark in 2010. She placed 4th with that lovely song, and she's half Thai.

 

[r3gg13]

I don't think race/color is a big factor when viewers vote (or juries for that matter). We wouldn't have gotten Loreen or Dave Benton as winners otherwise. Singers/Groups don't make a big fuss over their race/color, music is what really matters. It's as straightforward as that, at least in my opinion.

 

[aletem]

I don't think race plays much of a factor (or any factor) in ESC and it shouldn't.

There has been Jade Ewen who did quite well (5th)
Edsillia who did well (before televoting and then flopped with televoting)
Glennis Grace who should have made the final
Jessy Matador who should have done a lot better!
Stella Mwagi who was a fan favourite but flopped (understandably though IMO)
Imaani (2nd) before televoting was used by all
Andy Abraham (last) but the song was shocking
Afro-Dite were among the favourites and flopped
Eddie Butler great song but flopped
etc...

I was just wondering do people think it could effect this year

Imaani and Edsilia did well with the televoting (only few countries had a jury vote in 1998). You also forgot Dave from Aruba (Estonia 2001).

 

[12Points]

I was talking with a friend a few days ago but I have been debating whether to open a thread about it because it may cause controversy but I thought I would bring it up..

In ESC history, only 1 black person has won the contest and that was in 2001 (Dave Benton) with 5 white guys alongside him.

And correct me if I am wrong but was there not a big deal made out of 2012?

Does the colour of someones skin matter in ESC?

Isn't Loreen a black person?

 

[ParadiseES]

There is only one race: the human race.

 

[toinou03]

And our last hour of glory...

... Joëlle Ursull

And Amina...

And this year !

Well, indeed let's look at humans. I don't place differences in coulours of people...
Anggun, Jessy Matador and Amaury Vassili have in common to be... French singers !

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

I think the answer is; it shouldnt matter, but there will always be people to whom it does matter.

 

[dragvision]

ARAB ARE WHITE, MANY OF THEM ESPECIALLY IN ALGERIA SIRIA AND LEBANON HAVE BLUE OR GREEN EYES

 

[A-lister]

There has been Jade Ewen who did quite well (5th)
Edsillia who did well (before televoting and then flopped with televoting)
Glennis Grace who should have made the final
Jessy Matador who should have done a lot better!
Stella Mwagi who was a fan favourite but flopped (understandably though IMO)
Imaani (2nd) before televoting was used by all
Andy Abraham (last) but the song was shocking
Afro-Dite were among the favourites and flopped
Eddie Butler great song but flopped
etc...

I was just wondering do people think it could effect this year

This is quite subjective no?

Edsilia's second entry sucked imo, Glennis' entry was dreadful, Eddie Butler's entry was even more dreadful, and I wouldn't count a top. 10 for Afro-Dite a "flop"... in other words not sure if I would "blame it" on some presumed racism when it comes to these "flops".

Jessy Matador did quite well with televotes, so that would mean that the juries are the ones disturbed by race then not the general public?

I mean I see where you're coming from with this thread, but not sure if I could agree...

And then someone pointed out Loreen for instance who is of Berber ethnicity and pretty dark-skinned.

 

[A-lister]

ESCInsight did an excellent article on this topic actually. Tbh I would've thought that the European people would be more racist towards people from Muslim countries, however we put a half-Lebanese/Palestinian man in 3rd place in 2011, an Iranian man representing a predominantly Muslim county to 3rd again in 2009, we elected an ethnically-Moroccan lady to win in 2012 while also putting through an Iranian-born man to the finals. Then there's the success of Turkey and Azerbaijan, although the latter is questionable.

Not sure if Eric Saade is actually half "Palestinian" (you mean Jordanian or Egyptian?), I know Wiki state his father is "Palestinian"-Lebanese, but usually "Palestinians" are very loud about their origin and Eric so far has just mentioned being half-Lebanese. Arash may be Iranian born but he was already a quite famous name when he entered Eurovision (maybe not so much in Western Europe but in Scandinavia and parts of Central and Eastern Europe for sure), so I guess his success had partly to do with pre-fame.

Anyhow, that's sorta irrelevant, I don't think race/ethnicity really mattered much in Eurovision and it seems the most arguments given so far have been based on personal taste in music rather than actual rational arguments.

 

[A-lister]

ARAB ARE WHITE, MANY OF THEM ESPECIALLY IN ALGERIA SIRIA AND LEBANON HAVE BLUE OR GREEN EYES

There are black people with blue and green eyes too, doesn't make them "white" though

 

[Eurovisionified]

There is only one race: the human race.

There ARE different races. There can't be any racism, if no other races exists, right? So, for racism to exist, there must be races.

To think one race is supreme to another race - That is what we call racism.
.
Loreen can never be Aryan, and a Aryan can never be a Black. But they can still be Swedish.

 

[PashonFrut]

There are black people with blue and green eyes too, doesn't make them "white" though

Syrians do look slightly different than black people, no? Many of them can pass for Europeans. But we all know ''white'' is a cultural term.

 

[PashonFrut]

Anyone can win Eurovision, regardless of their race. That brings me to conclusion: talent > race.
But like someone said here before, it will matter to some.


P.S 'Aryan' is such an outdated term, I hope you people know that it's originated from India.

 

[A-lister]

Syrians do look slightly different than black people, no? Many of them can pass for Europeans. But we all know ''white'' is a cultural term.

If you mean "white" as in Caucasian then it's not just a cultural term, and just like there are different shades of that there are different ethnic groups within others aswell.

Anyways that's sorta uninteresting, the thread starter (I reckon?) wanted to make a discussion whether race matters and, well I don't think it does.