What do you think about Big 5?

[Impressive]

I think this is so unfair. Eurovision's mission, target should be equalism. But they are giving final chance every year even these countries' results are horrible.

France and United Kingdom? Mostly in last places. Italy? Just came back to contest. Germany? Until 2010, people didn't take it as a point even. I am not saying these countries are unnecessary. I am saying, being directly in final just because of politic power doesn't make this contest non-politic or fair, does it?

Skandinav countries giving high scores to each others or Turkey - Azerbaijan, Greece - Cyprus, Balkan countries votes shouldn't bother anyone when they think Big 5 is ok.

 

[AdelAdel]

I don't like the Big 5 at all, and I agree with you that they should participate in the semis with others. But you know perfectly well that it is about the money they give to EBU. I heard many times that if UK wasn't part of the Big 5, they would withdraw.
But yeah, I still remember the 2005 contest, when the (back then) Big 4 nations occupied the very last places.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Well if it wasnt for the Big 5 you wouldnt have a contest at all so shh moaning.

 

[Matt]

It's all about the money, baby. The Big 5 are by far the biggest financial contributors which is why they're pre qualified. Without them ESC wouldn't be possible, at least not at this point. I agree that it would be more fair if all countries had to go through the Semis but until the EBU can come up with an alternative to finance the contest it's not going to happen.

The obvious option would be to change the fees and make it equal among all countries but do you really think that any of the smaller countries could afford that? I don't think so.

 

[AdelAdel]

A question arises - can't the Big 5 still contribute money and NOT be pre-qualified?

 

[Matt]

A question arises - can't the Big 5 still contribute money and NOT be pre-qualified?

Look at it from their perspective. They get to pay all the money and don't get to particpate in the big Final?
Viewership would drop and at some point those broadcasters would withdraw. With those countries gone, their money will go away as well and then who is going to finance the contest?

So the answer is NO unfortunately.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

So the answer is NO fortunately.

Corrected!

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

A question arises - can't the Big 5 still contribute money and NOT be pre-qualified?

Why should we pay and get no benefit out of it?

 

[Matt]

Corrected!

From an objective point of view it makes sense for all countries to qualify, that is why I said unfortunately money plays a role in it. If it wasn't for the financial factors you would probably agree that it would be only fair for all countries to go through the Semi Rounds.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

From an objective point of view it makes sense for all countries to qualify, that is why I said unfortunately money plays a role in it. If it wasn't for the financial factors you would probably agree that it would be only fair for all countries to go through the Semi Rounds.

Of course, if we all paid the same. But as the Big 5 have the unfairness of paying more money, it is balanced out by the unfairness of pre-qualifying. Therefore it becomes fair to me.

 

[Impressive]

Eurovision is a contest that all Europe countries in same place; no religion difference, no racism, no stratification. Should be like that in my opinion.

If France, UK, Italy and Spain donate much many money, they shouldn't use it as threat. If they set Eurovision richer, they should just proud of being that kind of point on Eurovision. But if these countries use it advantage themselves, I would prefer a poorer contest that all countries are equal without politic, stratification. Who says them to donate money? They do not must do it. If they think giving money and eleminated in semi together are a wrong thing, do not donate?

What happens if they take their money back? Can not Europe preape a contest even?

I just defend equalism, non-stratificationism. I don't care if my country fails in semi, I just want it to choosen by other countries, not with my money :/

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

^ It's not equal when the 5 of us have to pay at least quadruple what all the other country's pay, each! And so you will live with it being unequal that we pre-qualify .

 

[Impressive]

^ It's not equal when the 5 of us have to pay at least quadruple what all the other country's pay, each! And so you will live with it being unequal that we pre-qualify .

Yeah, atm you have point to say that.
But if EBU would give to all participants same price, this problem could be solved.

But I still think,

If France, UK, Italy and Spain donate much many money, they shouldn't use it as threat.

 

[Little]

In another topic I already said my opinion about this:
To me, they also could delete this rule, so all start on a par. And maybe the fact of making 2 performances and not only one is an advantage...
About the money question, I don't know what to say. On a hand, big 5 pay a lot more than others, so they deserve a reward, but on the other hand, it looks like they buy the final place... I don't know what to say... It would be useful to know what is the difference of contribution in ebu between big 5 and other countries...

 

[CC92]

What is special about paying most when you are the biggest/richest?

Well if it wasnt for the Big 5 you wouldnt have a contest at all so shh moaning.

Without them [Big-5] ESC wouldn't be possible, at least not at this point.

No offence intended but I think you are underestimating the other broadcasters quite a bit. Even the poorest countries in Europe have their own broadcasters that can afford arranging entertainment shows on a daily basis. Having financially strong members in is a great help but they are not the hub of the universe. I take fair rules without hesitation.

 

[Matt]

This has nothing to do with being the "hub of the universe". I'm all for sharing the costs but in today's world and economy that's just not an option. We're not talking about putting a show together but the fees and general financial contribution to the EBU which are mostly carried by the countries in question. If 2 or 3 of the Big 5 withdraw, the contest would be in serious trouble financiall at least at this point. This is not my opinion, this is reality.

And I'm not the one saying it's great that we have a Big 5, it's a necessary step taken to ensure the future of the contest. Once the EBU can come up with other ways to finance the contest and no longer has to heavily rely on certain countries, I'm all for it.

 

[Sim]

I totally agree on what Matt says.

At this moment, we need a big 5. We don't know how much exactly they give, but it must enough for sure otherwise they won't have the right to be in the final directly.
And I don't mind they are directly in the final.
If the EBU doesn't do that, there would not be a big 5
and until EBU doesn't find another way to organize this, this must stay.

The "utopia" is to let every country pays the same, but that would kill the Big 5 and maybe also some small countries;

 

[alca]

You know I couldn't care less about the Big 4 (Spain is excluded). And I don't get how it's possible for Spain and Italy to be two of the 5 countries that pay so much more than the rest countries. Spain's economy is going from bad to worse! And Italy's isn't the best either! Hell they kept saying that RTVE told Pastora not to win because they wouldn't be able to host it next year! (even if it wasn't exactly something like "you don't dare win!")

Apart from the money thing, to be honest, I want Spain to leave the Big 5 and compete in the semis. Competing in the semi-finals is an advantage for me. It can help you finish really high in the final. Of course you need a song that will make a good first impression and that it will make people wanna hear it again (in the final).

Example: Loreen's "Euphoria" (ok maybe not the best example since it was a hit months before the contest but anyway). Some people heard it for the first time in the semi and they went "wow that's amazing! let's send it to the final. I wanna see that performance again. etc". So then in the final they hear "Quédate Conmigo" for the first time, they might go "wow" again but their mind would still be on "Euphoria" because they remember it from the semi!

I don't know. Nowadays I see the Big 5 as the ones who have a disadvantage but then again finishing last in the final is better than not even making it there, I suppose.

 

[rajo]

Why should we pay and get no benefit out of it?

Because the smaller countries do also pay without getting any extra benefit.

I wonder who actually pays the Spanish or Italian fees, the other EURO members through the bailout?

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

They pay the basic rate, and therefore get basic participation rights. We pay the "luxury" rate, and therefore rightly get luxury participation rights.

I cant say about Spain or Italy, but it would have been completely unacceptable to the United Kingdom to have been in the final only once (2009), possibly twice (2011), in a decade of contests. We'd thus have withdrawn, and France would no doubt have exited the same time too. The contest would struggle with one of the Big 5 gone, with 2 absent, it would be impossible for the other countries to hold the contest because they dont have the available funds.
Anyway, I like pre-qualification, it's fun .