Split up the points of each country! Both jury and televote!

[FallenAngelII]

Credit goes to MyHeartIsYours who, as far as I know, was the first person to suggest it on these boards, in one of the national threads.

It's a no-brainer in my opinion. As the system currently stands, points are not necessarily 50/50 at all!

I think it was the Romanian jury which gave 0 points to Moldova, yet Moldova still managed to snag 10 points from Romania because of how differently the people voted from the jury (Denmark got Moldova's 12, so I assume the televoters awarded Denmark at least some points). The people didn't vote for the same entries as the jury to the extent that no entry managed to get a combined jury+televote result of more than 10 or 12 depending on how much the people gave to Moldova (probably the 12 pointer), thus Moldova managed to get Romania's 10 pointer despite getting a big fat 0 from the jury.

So I say split up the votes. It will truly be 50/50 then! After all, this is the system used in every single country which uses 50/50 in their national finals: Separate jury and televote points. It's like this in Norway, Sweden, Azerbaijan, Greece and every single country in the ESC whose voting system is based on a 50/50 jury and televote system that I know of!

A combined point system really makes little sense. The example above proves just how vulnerable so shenanigans the system is.

 

[tooom]

I like the idea to split up the points mainly because I think it's impossible to combine jury- and viewer-votes in a fair way (not actually sure how they do it currently). Ranking the songs and calling/SMSing to vote for your favorite are completely different things.

The problem is that by splitting up the points you would not have 35-40 results to present, but 70-80. That would make that part of the show even longer.

 

[broomhelga]

This would just allow Greece and Cyprus to swap 24 points instead of 12.

Personally I think the televote and jury should rank all 25 songs. Then these scores are combined to produce a top 10.

This way a poor song getting 12 points (as it stands) from immigrant voters could easily end up with 0 points from the country overall.

 

[FallenAngelII]

I like the idea to split up the points mainly because I think it's impossible to combine jury- and viewer-votes in a fair way (not actually sure how they do it currently). Ranking the songs and calling/SMSing to vote for your favorite are completely different things.

They combine the scores received both from the jury and the televoters. The 10 entries which the most points them get points. In the case of ties, the televote takes precedence.

The problem is that by splitting up the points you would not have 35-40 results to present, but 70-80. That would make that part of the show even longer.

It's not that much more time-consuming. "And 8 points go to Russia and Greece!". Or they could just trim down the points award separately to just 10 and 12.

This would just allow Greece and Cyprus to swap 24 points instead of 12.

I highly doubt the Greek and Cypriotic juries swap 12 points with each other every year. Also, that's just two instances. Overall, it would make the contest much fairer.

Personally I think the televote and jury should rank all 25 songs. Then these scores are combined to produce a top 10.

But that's how it works today...

The jury ranks their Top 10, the televotes rank all 25 entries and their Top 10 get combined with the jury's Top 10...

This way a poor song getting 12 points (as it stands) from immigrant voters could easily end up with 0 points from the country overall.

Wait... how?

 

[broomhelga]

I like the idea to split up the points mainly because I think it's impossible to combine jury- and viewer-votes in a fair way (not actually sure how they do it currently). Ranking the songs and calling/SMSing to vote for your favorite are completely different things.

They combine the scores received both from the jury and the televoters. The 10 entries which the most points them get points. In the case of ties, the televote takes precedence.

The problem is that by splitting up the points you would not have 35-40 results to present, but 70-80. That would make that part of the show even longer.

It's not that much more time-consuming. "And 8 points go to Russia and Greece!". Or they could just trim down the points award separately to just 10 and 12.

This would just allow Greece and Cyprus to swap 24 points instead of 12.

I highly doubt the Greek and Cypriotic juries swap 12 points with each other every year. Also, that's just two instances. Overall, it would make the contest much fairer.

Personally I think the televote and jury should rank all 25 songs. Then these scores are combined to produce a top 10.

But that's how it works today...

The jury ranks their Top 10, the televotes rank all 25 entries and their Top 10 get combined with the jury's Top 10...

This way a poor song getting 12 points (as it stands) from immigrant voters could easily end up with 0 points from the country overall.

Wait... how?

That is not how it works today.

Under my alternative system they would rank ALL 25 songs....

so 25pts, 24, 23, 22 and so on for both the jury and the public.

These points would then be added up and the 10 songs with the most overall points would get 12,10,8....

 

[JackBauer]

This is a terrible idea!

It would be worse, much worse can't you see that?

For example Armenia & Turkey will all receive 12 or 10 From France, Belgium & Netherlands or Russia 12 from Belarus every year but they might receive also some points from the juries if their songs is good. :shock: every year turkey will present a good song they will have 36 points from televoting & 15/20 from the juries whereas a country like Bulgaria or Moldova could only hope for 15 from televoting and about the same from juries :shock:

With 50/50 it's 12 for sure for Turkey but Moldova could have 10. Instead of 10 versus 24 for Turkey!

 

[FallenAngelII]

But with the current system, Moldova got 10 points from Romania despite getting a big fat zero from the jury. How is that fair to the other entries the jury voted for?

 

[94ayd]

It can't be too fair, either since some countries' points will have more power and bigger an impact on the results than others, unless it's not only the top countries that'll get the points. That'll also be a bit unfair since some may give it 10 and others - to 20 countries.

 

[Deltage]

But with the current system, Moldova got 10 points from Romania despite getting a big fat zero from the jury. How is that fair to the other entries the jury voted for?

And how is it fair to the televoters who actually voted for Moldova? The jury's whole point isn't to diminish the televotes ar "counter-vote" against them.

 

[FallenAngelII]

And how is it fair to the televoters who actually voted for Moldova? The jury's whole point isn't to diminish the televotes ar "counter-vote" against them.

The system is supposed to be "50-50". In a true 50-50 system, such as the ones used in every single national final which utilizes 50-50, the jury and the televoting public dole out their points separately. Then, it is truly 50-50.

What would happen if it were the other way 'round? What if the jury had awarded an entry the televoting public awarded 0 points 12 points, in the end netting said country, let's say it's Sealand, 10 points despite the televoting public ignoring it? Would that be fair to the televoter's 10 pointer? No.

The system is touted as being fair because it's 50-50. Well, if you want true 50-50, split it up. Then it really will be 50-50.

 

[MyHeartIsYours]

Thank you for thinking my idea is good!!!

I think that would give without doubt the fairest vote as atm countries that can get high points in one of the votes but none in the other which means it can end up with 0 overall which isn't fair. If it is split properly then everybody will get the results they deserve - the people's say will be given aswell as the jury's say.

Yes the results would take longer but is that bad?!! The results seem to be over very quickly now-a-days so I think an extra 25 mins would be nice!