Eastern European countries: How can they succeed? (2nd edition)

[Loindici]

With the success of Croatia and Ukraine getting podium finishes this year, I want to continue the discussion about the chances of Eastern European countries to do better in the show.

The status quo:
In the modern Eurovision times, it is harder for Eastern European countries to get good results in general. I know they've tried the best that they can, but... it seems like it was never enough.
Aside of the political reasons, and knowing that most of these countries are much less known by reputation, I still want them to succeed or at least be taken seriously as contenders.

The question(s):

1. What do you think the delegations could improve with their selection/management?;
2. What do you think needs to be done with the way they present/market their entries (this includes staging capabilities)?;
3. How should things around the contest apply/change (system, bookies, draw, EBU, etc.)?

Let me know about your thoughts below!

 

[aef]

I don’t feel like there is a serious disadvantage for Eastern European countries, I don’t know where that point of view comes from. In the past 25 years we had , , , (3x), , , , winning and many other Eastern European countries coming top 5/ top 10.

The only country that is pushed too much be juries is . I mean they always have decent entries but sometimes they are really overrated a lot.

I think many Western European countries don’t have any advantage compared to Eastern European countries, for example all don’t have traditional voting allies.

In comparison to that many Eastern European countries do have voting allies and diaspora support.

 

[Loindici]

I don’t know where that point of view comes from. In the past 25 years we had , , , (3x), , , , winning and many other Eastern European countries coming top 5/ top 10.

I think you can only pull back until when the first version of the current voting system comes to application, which is 2009. And by that, you got list of winners mostly from North-Western parts of Europe:

You can argue Russia or Ukraine has been competing with a good track record, but they're probably the only two countries that were. The others, including the ex-Yugoslavian countries, Greece-Cyprus, or the Baltics, were sometimes close to the podium, but never won. I hope that clears up the point of view.

 

[Realest]

I think many Western European countries don’t have any advantage compared to Eastern European countries,

has a big Diaspora in . Without them, they would have had 0 Points this Year, like in 2018 already.

 

[aef]

I mean countries like ::mo and so on also just sent a lot of crap to the contest in previous years. Like what examples are we talking about where they haven’t been rewarded enough by juries? The only example coming into my mind is 2018. Western European countries like also sent a lo of crap in the 2000s but somehow they all managed a turnaround in the 2010s.

The Nordics just have decent songs most of the time. is the vest example for more or less constantly delivering somehow decent entries. They never send total crap. Just look at now, they send rather beige entries in previous years and therefore they’re having quite a long NQ streak now. So they can also fail.

 

[aef]

has a big Diaspora in . Without them, they would have had 0 Points this Year, like in 2018 already.

Yes there is some diaspora but it’s not as big as in other countries. Doesn’t always secure them qualification.

 

[Realest]

Yes there is some diaspora but it’s not as big as in other countries. Doesn’t always secure them qualification.

No, but they save them from total embarassment like this year or 2018.

 

[aef]

No, but they save them from total embarassment like this year or 2018.

It would be a total shame if an entry like Grito got 0 televoting points. It’s such a quality entry. To me it seems that in recent years the televoting points are always eaten up by the top frontrunners and countries with big diaspora… and then there’s not much left for smaller countries, even if they have quality entries. But afterall there’s not really anything you can do against that. I think for example had a unique song and a good spot in the running order yet it still didn’t get much televoting points.

 

[HayashiM]

In my opinion, changing the producers for someone from Eastern Europe or at least having a random running order would have done way more than any individual effort from the Eastern countries to improve their selection/presentation. The bias is ridiculous and it's only getting worse.

After this year's shit show, I am pretty close to the point where I actually don't even care if we withdraw or not.

 

[Storm]

I see a lot less Eastern countries competing nowadays than 15 years ago (Western countries are outnumbering Eastern by far right now, when it was the opposite in the 00s) which means a) there are less possible Eastern winners to begin with and b) there's less neighbor/diaspora/same taste voting.

I feel like as a result, a lot of Eastern countries have dropped the ball too. Are we really thinking Serbia or Romania recently sent quality entries like in the 2000s? I also don't think Croatia or Bulgaria 'only' finishing 2nd this year or in 2017 is some poor result. Whoever finishes second can also win. Sure the jury might be more open to standard pop songs vs ethno EE folk. But I don't know whether the juries would be into German folk aka campy Schlager either honestly LOL. Europapa would have flopped with the juries too so it's not like Western automatically does better when they aren't going for the jury sound.

I remember 2007. The entire Top 15 were more or less Eastern countries. Not that much different in 2006 or 2008. This year, we had like four Eastern countries in the televote Top 10 (+ Israel). Last year the three Scandinavians topped the televote. So EE seems to be doing less good with the public too? After all there's just one more Eastern Eurovision win added in the last few years (Croatia this year) if we still had televote only, no?

 

[aef]

In my opinion, changing the producers for someone from Eastern Europe or at least having a random running order would have done way more than any individual effort from the Eastern countries to improve their selection/presentation. The bias is ridiculous and it's only getting worse.

After this year's shit show, I am pretty close to the point where I actually don't even care if we withdraw or not.

You still can’t provide any real argumentation for this so-called western „bias“. There might be for , but where do you see any bias for countries and so on? What’s even considered western in your world? Some might call countries like Central Europe…

In general I‘m getting quite tired of some people from Eastern European countries always acting as if they are treated as 2nd class citizens tbh. Let’s just enjoy the great advantages of a more or less united, still peaceful Europe (except for unfortunately) and lets have a good time together.

 

[NeoTen]

You still can’t provide any real argumentation for this so-called western „bias“. There might be for , but where do you see any bias for countries and so on? What’s even considered western in your world? Some might call countries like Central Europe…

In general I‘m getting quite tired of some people from Eastern European countries always acting as if they are treated as 2nd class citizens tbh. Let’s just enjoy the great advantages of a more or less united, still peaceful Europe (except for unfortunately) and lets have a good time together.

Do you really want a 1500 page monologue here from someone like me proving there is a slight disadvantage in the current voting pool for EE-countries? You could also find these 3 in the stadium. If those 1500 words feel like too long;
They'll explain it.

 

[SpiritofKeiino]

I thought Bulgaria was on the right track to win in the next few years, until they seemed to give up around 2022 with the awful Intelligent Music Project and then didn't show up in 2023 and 2024.

Is there a bias against Eastern European countries? I dunno, I'd need to see more evidence. Romania didn't send anything worthy of winning in recent years. Moldova had some quality entries but usually the songs weren't jury friendly. Albania hasn't had a song of winning standard, much as I love Duje. Montenegro and North Macedonia were mostly awful. Croatia has just had a great year.

I could see Serbia winning again soon with the right package. They seem to have a good selection process and usually quality entries.

 

[ag89]

The real question here is who of those wants to win?

I see only two, potentially three countries. Serbia has an ambition to win and they state this directly or indirectly here and there. Their national selection is decent and gets more and more attention while providing a pretty good show with high standards compared to many national selections. Serbia can also host, they have all capacities.

But, I think Greece has more chance: they have been experimenting with "non-Greek" sounds which gave them no or some success. Maybe they will go back to the expected Greek sounds and get attention they had between 2001 and 2011. EBU will probably be happy to bring ESC around the Balkans, too.

And finally, Croatia feels motivated now, after success in 2023 and of course 2024. Their music industry is interesting, but has been abandoned by Dora fathers for years. Luckily, Baby Lasagna's story helped everyone discover their corrupt selection procedure and I think they will 100% change for next Dora and keep on trying to do well.

Finally, I hope EBU can put a bit more effort to animate countries here to participate again.