escYOUnited
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It was about time to make it happen on our forum, so let's go
The New Asia Based Contest - Discussion
- Thread starter escYOUnited
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nekoisneko
Well-known member
OMG 
Eulaliya
Well-known member
YAASSSSSS can't wait!
So 1) ofc I'm in, I particularly like the idea of changing country regularly, it removes my initial restraint (aka not finding enough songs if I don't take Japan or SK)
2) I understand the concerns about the name, but I like Orient Matsuri very much and I don't think the other propositions fit better. And tbh, when you take a look at, let's say FSC for example, I don't think the name is a good representative either.
3) About eligible countries and associates, it is indeed difficult to draw the line. I would be more on Uto's side here, as in restraining it to Egypt at most and leaving the other North/Eastern African countries at associate status (and dropping the ones from Europe all together).
2) I understand the concerns about the name, but I like Orient Matsuri very much and I don't think the other propositions fit better. And tbh, when you take a look at, let's say FSC for example, I don't think the name is a good representative either.
3) About eligible countries and associates, it is indeed difficult to draw the line. I would be more on Uto's side here, as in restraining it to Egypt at most and leaving the other North/Eastern African countries at associate status (and dropping the ones from Europe all together).
Good luck with organising this contest!
"Orient Matsuri" sounds very fitting tbh. It sounds less generic and there are plenty of Asia-something song contests floating around the internet.
As for the map with the participants, I'm not sure why Eastern Europe is included, I don't think we are that underrated lol (why are the baltics not included btw?). I can already see Ukraine snatch some instant victories. I'd rather have the entire continent of Africa as eligible members instead. (that way both AfricaVision and AsiaVision lovers will find a place here).
"Orient Matsuri" sounds very fitting tbh. It sounds less generic and there are plenty of Asia-something song contests floating around the internet.
As for the map with the participants, I'm not sure why Eastern Europe is included, I don't think we are that underrated lol (why are the baltics not included btw?). I can already see Ukraine snatch some instant victories. I'd rather have the entire continent of Africa as eligible members instead. (that way both AfricaVision and AsiaVision lovers will find a place here).
doctormalisimo
Well-known member
Uto
Veteran
Basically I think we should just run two polls. One for the name that will just be a win for Orient Mutsuki anyway and one for what to do with Africa (full, Arabic, Islamic or just only associate). Rest of the rules seem viable as is.
There are some things to add to this. Just based on intuition I'm not happy about the region system (maybe max 2 or 3 per country instead of 5, we don't want Japan and SoKor to dominate I would guess) and I think there should be a max of 5 editions for every country/region anyway because I think we want to encourage hopping around. Maybe you all can share some thoughts on that?
There are some things to add to this. Just based on intuition I'm not happy about the region system (maybe max 2 or 3 per country instead of 5, we don't want Japan and SoKor to dominate I would guess) and I think there should be a max of 5 editions for every country/region anyway because I think we want to encourage hopping around. Maybe you all can share some thoughts on that?
hawadharma
Well-known member
Just for the record, I hate the name Orient Matsuki. What is that even?
And I don't like region system at all. Why not keep it simple and play countries like the ESC? If I wanted to play regions, and include African/Carribeans etc. I might as well just join Worldvision.
The concept of an Asian Eurovision has been in discussion for a long time and the concept that I have in mind is quite clear, just like ESC but with Asian countries. Except I do not want Big 5 or Big 10 countries or whatever, it is not like we need to favour certain countries since it is a virtual competition anyways. Just level the playing grounds.
I welcome intercontinental countries like Russia or Turkey to join, but not totally unrelated countries like Australia.
Honestly looking at the discussion here, I am a bit disappointed. Anyway why not continue the discussion that has already started in the Eurovision Asia forum?
But, unless I missed something in the rules, there is nothing about regions actually ?
However, I think the 5 editions-max rule should be extended to all countries, if the aim is actually to encourage switching jury a lot more than in WV.
I mean, it's pretty clear here we only select countries...
However, I think the 5 editions-max rule should be extended to all countries, if the aim is actually to encourage switching jury a lot more than in WV.
hawadharma
Well-known member
Sorry for being a bit bitter on the post above.
Just saw the updated post from @OrientMatsuri with all the rules and whatnot.
It actually sounds great and executable.
Only thing I still disagree with is naming the whole contest as "Orient Matsuri" as if there is already a consensus on that.
Just saw the updated post from @OrientMatsuri with all the rules and whatnot.
It actually sounds great and executable.
Only thing I still disagree with is naming the whole contest as "Orient Matsuri" as if there is already a consensus on that.
Uto
Veteran
I think I just made the assumption and given that it was never mentioned the assumption was never proven not to be true. This is good news then.
Think it's indeed probably best to make the limit of 5 just a general rule.
Uto
Veteran
No, that's not the case. I think most people think it's a bit odd. Given that we probably want to incorporate parts of Africa or at least the Arabic sphere of influence the word Orient is better than simply the word Asia, but it's still not the exact term we are looking for. Matsuri is the problem here, it's distinctly Japanese. Might just as well have called it a Pasar Malam, which is Indonesian (Malay) for a night market (with music and entertainment).Only thing I still disagree with is naming the whole contest as "Orient Matsuri" as if there is already a consensus on that.
So yeah, Great Oriental Beat Bazaar it is then.
I don't see the point of having to change your country after 5 editions if there's nobody volunteering to take it instead of you. It could lead to blanking some countries for some editions just because the previous user cannot take it anymore and everybody else is reluctant to take it. I think we can negotiate and switch if people are really willing to take over a country from someone else.
But I agree it should be applied to the BIG 6 countries with big music industry to prevent monopolizing them
But I agree it should be applied to the BIG 6 countries with big music industry to prevent monopolizing them
hawadharma
Well-known member
Noted, yet I think the word 'Orient' does not cover the whole Asian region but specifically only East Asian countries.
"The Orient includes countries and regions like Japan, China, Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Asia is a much larger continent which includes places like India, Pakistan, Cambodia, Tibet, Nepal and most of Russia."
As an alternative for the word Asia, we can use the word 'East' to cover the whole region. Like East Beats etc. Anyway I think the word Bazaar kinda rings with the whole region
SaladBreak
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- Joined
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- Posts
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"Orient" is not an official term for any region, it can mean different regions of Asia, Asia or East altogether, depending where you come from or what context you use it in.
Where I'm from it's used for the East in general or the lands of the Middle East http://hjp.znanje.hr/index.php?show=search_by_id&id=eFhnXhk=
Where I'm from it's used for the East in general or the lands of the Middle East http://hjp.znanje.hr/index.php?show=search_by_id&id=eFhnXhk=
I love to see so much input, some of these I expected as many of us spoke about it also, like removing Eastern Europe and the final borders on Africa.
I think our thing was; we definitely see it as a contest based on Asia but we also wanted to incorporate some African nations into it so we looked for alternative terms which would at least mostly be fitting. The term 'Orient' is one that changes meanings depending on your location, I know in Western-Europe it's used as to refer to the Far East and South-East Asia, while for example in Eastern Europe and in the Arab and Middle Eastern World it's referred to certain parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa and culture like belly dancing etc. so we thought it'd make sense for both.
If you look at 'Orient World Maps' you can also see that it's very different each time, I mean it's not like it's a political or geographical border and I don't think anyone from the Western Orient Map here would get offended with the term.
I think the latter is one we can incorporate well, something like this was also Uto's first suggestion I think? Thanks for your input!
I think indeed we need a poll on the name and one where we vote Asia+Arabic(North African) World vs Asia+Africa probably and maybe an option for no Africa at all.
I think our thing was; we definitely see it as a contest based on Asia but we also wanted to incorporate some African nations into it so we looked for alternative terms which would at least mostly be fitting. The term 'Orient' is one that changes meanings depending on your location, I know in Western-Europe it's used as to refer to the Far East and South-East Asia, while for example in Eastern Europe and in the Arab and Middle Eastern World it's referred to certain parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa and culture like belly dancing etc. so we thought it'd make sense for both.
If you look at 'Orient World Maps' you can also see that it's very different each time, I mean it's not like it's a political or geographical border and I don't think anyone from the Western Orient Map here would get offended with the term.
I think the latter is one we can incorporate well, something like this was also Uto's first suggestion I think? Thanks for your input!
I think indeed we need a poll on the name and one where we vote Asia+Arabic(North African) World vs Asia+Africa probably and maybe an option for no Africa at all.
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I think this is a very important rule so people don't monopolize certain places from others who also might want to play the nation, I'm sure Japan and South Korea will be wanted by everyone for example, it's only valid for these 'Big' nations and the associate ones. But it's being encouraged to change your region in general every now and then.
I also like @Edweis idea.
Fierro
Well-known member
I'd try to participate, but it depends on which countries will be available. I think this should be rotational
Borderline
Well-known member
Take me to the Middle East baby!
Sorry for taking so long to respond. I wasn't in the best, let's say, mood and I think it wouldn't be the best time to actually say anything.
Let's give you a bit of context on how this idea started and a bit of my experience in several contests from many forums, communities and Facebook groups.
In these contests, I usually choose entries from the Asian continent because I've grown up with some of these songs - being an anime fan since I was 5, having played many rhythm games from Japan and South Korea in my childhood and teenage years, searching for Middle Eastern songs because I wanted to learn Arabic. Even if I live literally on the other side of the world, I've had a huge connection with the music scene for so long now.
The thing is: in every single contest (no exceptions) I've been in, Asian entries did better the more "westernized" they sounded like. And I'm not the only one who realized that. When commenting that with some people who also plays with Asian countries (and even some who don't) agreed on that statement. I have complained about this many times on our plug nights (Uto and Kai can confirm this). I can even share some examples:
- I'm part of a contest called Eurasia Song Contest (I'm in charge of Japan since edition 1). 10 editions in and not a single Asian country has won. And we've sent plenty of good songs. I've got two top 10s this far (including a 2nd place). However, both entries were, by far, the one that could have been sung by any mainstream western artist (one of them was a girl group whose song could be totally sung by Little Mix; while the other one even had Ariana Grande comparisons). I mean, I still love both, but when you see the other entries getting bottoms or being stuck in the semi when they are far from being bad is always. :/
- There is another contest where Japan, China and South Korea only and only qualified when they "sounded western". If they didn't, it was always a bottom in the semi. It happened with pop songs, rock songs, folk songs... I've got a good result with Japan once... with the same group that has songs that could have been sent by Little Mix.
- Even within Asian competitions, I can see a pattern of the ones of bigger music industry doing better and some countries from the same region doing better than others (eg. Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan get better results than Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan; India does better than Pakistan and Bangladesh; Thailand and Vietnam are more successful than Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia, etc). We hope that the rotation rule for these countries with a bigger industry can make this kind of situation be avoided.
- There are some comments made towards these countries' entries in other contests that made me feel pretty much ????. Let's take two examples. Someone got India and sent something that doesn't fit the stereotype people have from the music scene of India (tl;dr: not Bollywood music). People start "complimenting" saying that "OH MY GOD I WOULD NEVER HAVE EXPECTED THIS FROM INDIA" when... India has over a billion people with different tastes and sometimes just one of their cities has more people than an entire country. Why do expect all of their songs to be "bollywood-esque"? If smaller European countries, let's say, can have a versatile music scene, why can't India also have it?; the other example is something that is more common to be seen towards Africa than Asia, but I'll say it anyway. There is a contest we take part where we make our own countries (just like NSC) and every edition has a specific theme we have to follow. The current theme is "songs from African artists". Not only over half of the entries are from South Africa (which eerr), I've seen questions like "do the songs have to sound African?". However, what does that mean? Botswana's and Libya's songs don't sound the same and they are both from the same continent. Does that mean one of them is "more African" than the other? No. Not at all. The thing is some people still can only see Africa as a continent and not several countries because this is how Africa is portrayed to us in the West (at least here it is). We don't say the same about European music sounding the same or songs sounding European because we, as Eurovision fans, know it's not the truth. We can see the difference between the entries of several countries, whatever the genre is, because we are used to listening to them in the contest. Another example of this: I live in Brazil, which is one of the biggest countries in the world. You can't expect the music scene of the entire song to sound the same. What is popular in my state is different of what is popular in Rio, for example. We also hope that, with this contest, everyone can see how diverse the music scene of Asia is.
tl;dr: Most of us have grown with this prejudiced vision of music we are not used to listen to. With this contest, I hope we can change that and expand our horizons. Thank you for the support this far.
Let's give you a bit of context on how this idea started and a bit of my experience in several contests from many forums, communities and Facebook groups.
In these contests, I usually choose entries from the Asian continent because I've grown up with some of these songs - being an anime fan since I was 5, having played many rhythm games from Japan and South Korea in my childhood and teenage years, searching for Middle Eastern songs because I wanted to learn Arabic. Even if I live literally on the other side of the world, I've had a huge connection with the music scene for so long now.
The thing is: in every single contest (no exceptions) I've been in, Asian entries did better the more "westernized" they sounded like. And I'm not the only one who realized that. When commenting that with some people who also plays with Asian countries (and even some who don't) agreed on that statement. I have complained about this many times on our plug nights (Uto and Kai can confirm this). I can even share some examples:
- I'm part of a contest called Eurasia Song Contest (I'm in charge of Japan since edition 1). 10 editions in and not a single Asian country has won. And we've sent plenty of good songs. I've got two top 10s this far (including a 2nd place). However, both entries were, by far, the one that could have been sung by any mainstream western artist (one of them was a girl group whose song could be totally sung by Little Mix; while the other one even had Ariana Grande comparisons). I mean, I still love both, but when you see the other entries getting bottoms or being stuck in the semi when they are far from being bad is always. :/
- There is another contest where Japan, China and South Korea only and only qualified when they "sounded western". If they didn't, it was always a bottom in the semi. It happened with pop songs, rock songs, folk songs... I've got a good result with Japan once... with the same group that has songs that could have been sent by Little Mix.
- Even within Asian competitions, I can see a pattern of the ones of bigger music industry doing better and some countries from the same region doing better than others (eg. Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan get better results than Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan; India does better than Pakistan and Bangladesh; Thailand and Vietnam are more successful than Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia, etc). We hope that the rotation rule for these countries with a bigger industry can make this kind of situation be avoided.
- There are some comments made towards these countries' entries in other contests that made me feel pretty much ????. Let's take two examples. Someone got India and sent something that doesn't fit the stereotype people have from the music scene of India (tl;dr: not Bollywood music). People start "complimenting" saying that "OH MY GOD I WOULD NEVER HAVE EXPECTED THIS FROM INDIA" when... India has over a billion people with different tastes and sometimes just one of their cities has more people than an entire country. Why do expect all of their songs to be "bollywood-esque"? If smaller European countries, let's say, can have a versatile music scene, why can't India also have it?; the other example is something that is more common to be seen towards Africa than Asia, but I'll say it anyway. There is a contest we take part where we make our own countries (just like NSC) and every edition has a specific theme we have to follow. The current theme is "songs from African artists". Not only over half of the entries are from South Africa (which eerr), I've seen questions like "do the songs have to sound African?". However, what does that mean? Botswana's and Libya's songs don't sound the same and they are both from the same continent. Does that mean one of them is "more African" than the other? No. Not at all. The thing is some people still can only see Africa as a continent and not several countries because this is how Africa is portrayed to us in the West (at least here it is). We don't say the same about European music sounding the same or songs sounding European because we, as Eurovision fans, know it's not the truth. We can see the difference between the entries of several countries, whatever the genre is, because we are used to listening to them in the contest. Another example of this: I live in Brazil, which is one of the biggest countries in the world. You can't expect the music scene of the entire song to sound the same. What is popular in my state is different of what is popular in Rio, for example. We also hope that, with this contest, everyone can see how diverse the music scene of Asia is.
tl;dr: Most of us have grown with this prejudiced vision of music we are not used to listen to. With this contest, I hope we can change that and expand our horizons. Thank you for the support this far.