NSC 199 *nscosmos* DDL November 13 * 23.59 CET!

[ferret]

NATION : U.S.S.R
ARTIST : Zemlyane
SONG : Trava u doma
VIDEO LINK : URL video

Crew Captain : ferret
Flight Engineer : Alevender
Co-pilot : Veronika


​

 

[ferret]

SF : 54/54
::hyp






PQ : 6/6
​

 

[doctormalisimo]

Using the theme to remember one of the best entries to ever grace the contest:

 

[theditz83]

Sonic engineer reporting for duty and looking forward to our journey through the cosmos

 

[berlyda]

Using the theme to remember one of the best entries to ever grace the contest:

I thought that song had been lost to time, but I'm glad to see someone remembers it I even had to look it up in the database to reassure myself that it was indeed me who sent it After a while all the semi failures start to blend together

 

[berlyda]

Oh, and we can't forget this classic bop

(Not space themed, I know, but I needed an excuse to give it some airtime)

 

[MiraShadowMan]

Crew Captain : ferret
Flight Engineer : Alevender
Co-pilot : Veronika​

Rowdy : MiraShadowMan​

 

[ferret]

Rowdy : MiraShadowMan​

Such people are not accepted as astronauts!

 

[Fearnavigatr]

So I have intentions to send an entry with potential to be controversial, and I'm gonna put it up here for community feedback to ensure its legality and transparency.

This is the entry:

This is a medley containing snippets of lots of different songs, and the caveat is that some of the featured songs have already been entered to NSC in their full versions (some of them as covers), including:

Ugaly NSC 10 (also sampled in Balearica Island NSC 55)
Ugaly NSC 13
Ametan NSC 29
Serenes NSC 146
Ugaly NSC 161

These are the ones I know about, I may have missed someone.
Additionally, I can count seven of the snippets that were also a part of the medley in Ugaly NSC 77 (including the Mario theme, so we do have a precedent here) and one that was in Ugaly NSC 46.

The snippets are all very short and don't make up much of the entry as a whole, so I assume that this will still be okay under the sample rule (consensus deemed it okay when I did basically the same thing in NSC 77), and likewise none of the other snippets should block the respective songs from being entered in the future. But as always it's best to run these things by the community first, so I'm asking, is this entry okay?

 

[Uto]

Where was that topic about people having to listen to every song in full?

 

[dogmeat]

I'm not one to tell others what they can or cannot send, but this is where I would draw a line.
Not because it may contain fragments of previous entries, but because it's not a single song. You're literally trying to send over 90 separate musical pieces at once. I would understand if it was a coherent composition made up of smaller pieces (and therefore greater than sum of its parts). But this is literally just a recap. I could just as well try to send a WV final recap as an entry.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

I will definitely say you're wrong there, this is not a recap and is clearly arranged and designed to be a coherent unified piece, I wouldn't even consider sending it otherwise. I think that's an odd take even from an objective perspective, but we'll see, if consensus disagrees or can't decide, so be it, I've got another entry ready to go.

And hey, I wouldn't condone it but I'm not stopping you if you really want to send a WV recap, we've seen Flash cartoons and clips from reality shows entered as "songs", it'd hardly be the most extreme boundary push.

 

[berlyda]

Yeah, I would hardly call it a recap. Sure, it's many musical pieces stitched together in a linear way, but it is certainly greater than the sum of its parts and makes a coherent composition. It isn't simply one piece fading into another; there has clearly been a lot of effort to edit the music to make the pieces flow into each other as a single narrative.

As for its legality regarding the sampling, I would be inclined to allow it. There is precedent of similar entries in NSC, and each of the samples makes up a very small fraction of the overall piece (roughly 1%).

However, I admit that this is partly due to the sheer length of the piece, and if you add up all the samples that appear in previous entries (13 if I'm interpreting Jochen's post correctly), that makes up 13% of the whole entry, which is more significant. So I could also see an argument for disallowing it, although I am sure there have been entries in the past that have surpassed 13% in samples.

Overall, I think it would be good to get some more opinions.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

(13 if I'm interpreting Jochen's post correctly)

12 in fact, since Mario is counted twice.

It's an interesting statistic to look at, so I went through the whole thing and counted. The previously appearing parts total roughly 2 minutes and 49 seconds. If we assume the whole entry is 24:26 (counting everything after that as credits in the video and not a part of the song itself) that makes about 11.54%. If you only look at the five songs that have been entered in full (since the remaining 7 were originally only "samples" in the first place), that makes 1:07, or about 4.6%.

If you only look at the 7 snippets that were also in the Mario Medley, which is probably the individual previous entry with the most similarities, that's 1:38, or 6.8%. The same seven songs made up 3:57 of the Mario Medley, which was about 21.56% of that entry.

Anyway, yes, more opinions welcome!

 

[Uto]

I tend to drop opinions like nobody's business so here we go again.

Stop being so anal about stuff like this. Just accept the song. It's clearly not using these so called 'samples' as a sample, but as musical quotes in a long long list of musical quotes. It's not a core part of the song. Also the length is a non-issue. Just push it to the back of the LL and people who don't feel like getting a pretty cool tour through the history of video game music can just leave. It's just a game.

 

[berlyda]

It's not a core part of the song.

Yeah, I think this is the key thing here telling me it should be allowed.

 

[dogmeat]

One more issue I see here: while a 50s snippet is not a large part of a 24 min video, it is a large part of its 2 min source video. Wouldn't this one entry invalidate 90 songs from being entered in the future?
And what about credited artists? That is 90 artists blocked from this edition. Although it's unlikely anyone was planning to send any of them, it does set a precedent, where you can block infinite number of artists with one entry.

 

[berlyda]

One more issue I see here: while a 50s snippet is not a large part of a 24 min video, it is a large part of its 2 min source video. Wouldn't this one entry invalidate 90 songs from being entered in the future?

But they're not 50s snippets, they're more like 15s, which is not enough to invalidate a 2-minute video (it would be 12.5% of said video, which is roughly the same as the 11.54% we have here).

I do agree that this is a potential situation that we should look out for in the future, however.

EDIT: As for credited artists, I don't think any of those 90 artists should be credited as official artists of the entry. Songs with small samples in them do not typically credit the original artist of the sample by listing them as an artist of the track. This does raise the interesting question of whether you can enter an original song and another entry that samples that song in the same edition. I think the answer is yes, under the current rules.

 

[Fearnavigatr]

I specifically addressed this in the first post.

The snippets are all very short and don't make up much of the entry as a whole, so I assume that this will still be okay under the sample rule (consensus deemed it okay when I did basically the same thing in NSC 77), and likewise none of the other snippets should block the respective songs from being entered in the future.

As for artists, I've already considered that, I'm giving main credit to NoteBlock, the main producer and arranger, while everyone else gets a collective name and are to be considered guests and part of an ensemble. A few very rare precedents under rule 7.3 already say this does not block artists in the same edition. I mean, we don't ever double check that every single individual musician in a symphonic orchestra is not also playing in another entry, and I doubt anyone thinks we should do that.

The cover legality should really be the only issue here, the other concerns that have been raised are fair to discuss in general, but they're about principles and not things that would make this entry break the rules.

 

[doctormalisimo]

I think this passes the covers rule. It's clearly a different piece to the entries mentioned and the samples are short enough to not be a significant part of the melody, and there's so many melodies that the previous entries are effectively drowned out. Don't think this is even borderline but still helpful to discuss.

Regarding what even constitutes a piece of music, that's a different topic but definitely something I think we could look at at another time.