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Thread: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

  1. Wizard
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    #131

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamarus View Post
    BTW, I just watched the ESC 2005 final in Kiev, on DVD. I thought the voting that year was quite interesting, and pretty fair actually. Switzerland in particular struck me as surprisingly popular (10 points from Belarus, and high marks from every Baltic country). Just my impression, do you think 2005 was a "fair" year (if there is any)? (I know I'm digressing, but this is linked to the jury issue IMO)
    The Vanilla Ninja Ninja actually was so popular for that time in Belarus.

  2. Mentor
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    #132

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    oh, yeah... that's what I thought lol
    TOP 10 for ESC 2014 (27 March): 12 - Spain; 10 - Israel; 8- United Kingdom; 7 - Netherlands; 6 - Austria; 5 - Poland; 4 - Estonia; 3 - Belgium; 2 - Albania; 1 - Ukraine

  3. Legend
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    #133

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    Regarding the Belarussian votes, I couldn’t predict that their 12 points would go to Georgia this year. I feel convinced (I don’t know for certain, I just feel convinced) that if there had been 100 % televoting, these 12 points would’ve went to Russia as they did from 2004-2008.
    Apart from the few steady vice-versa-connections, namely Cyprus<–>Greece, Azerbaijan<–>Turkey, Italy<–>San Marino(?), whose forseeability does not vary in televoting and 'combined results' likewise, there is no predictable 12 points score either when it comes to the public. Although it is supposable they stay in a greater 'bloc' (keep in my mind: there have been various exceptions) it is impossible to appoint the exact country that will be awarded with it before knowing the entries or even overall voting trends. As higher-voted Georgia belongs to the same 'political bloc' as Belarus or Russia I fail to see a moral difference or a larger surprise.
    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    After all, it’s not (as you write) unlikely that Russia received 12 points from the televoters. A hypothetical example: RUS 12+0, GEO 10+7, UKR 6+10, GER 2+12, MOL 8+5, AZE 7+6 = Russia 5 points.
    Given the split points by country released for the 2009 contest, there has not been one case in that the 12 points from televoting were diminished to five or less points in the 'combined voting'. Nor occured this in any revealed split for 2010 or 2011. Just once the televoting favourite received 6 points, on all other occasions at least 7 points. In addition we do not even know BTRC gave nil points. Thus based on facts it can be considered as unlikely (not mathematically excluded).

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    Regarding the Danish votes, I couldn’t predict that our 12 points would go to Ireland this year. I feel convinced that we would have given our top mark to Sweden, if there had been 100 % televoting. After all, we rewarded Sweden with 89 points in the finals from 1999 to 2008.
    Popular was a typical nordic Pop schlager that won the international full televoting, not counting back up juries, so it was plausible if it topped the Danish one, too. Giving not the 12 rather seems incredible to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    [B]I don’t think that it’s a question of Ducth people’s taste when songs like “Rimi rimi ley” and “Süper Star” gets 12 points, while “Düm tek tek” and “We could be the same” gets 8 points.
    It indeed is not because Düm tek tek also gained the people's 12.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    To sum up: As many others, I would like the voting to be much more transparent. After all, my examples are just an outsiders conviction and not facts. Just as your claim that the juries are bribed is a conviction.
    I cannot claim if they are bribed or not and I have not done it. It is clear and officially stated they do assert foreign interests and it is a fact EBU and 95% of the broadcasters do hide the results since 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    As I wrote, the juries aren’t perfect. It’s still not hard to predict where many 12 points are going, Cyprus and Moldova being the best examples. Nevertheless, I was happy to see a lot of surprising 12 points this year. Perhaps you were able to predict 90% of them – I was not, [...]
    Still I would like to know the lots of surprising 12 points for you as for me and other observers the voting looked quite 'blocish' this year. Probably the neighbourish voting among western contestants was unwonted.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    [...]and that is what’s make the voting fun and exiting for me.
    For me, an absolute meaningless and intransparent can hardly bring fun and excitement. Probably I do take it too serious? However, many agree on that without voting ESC is a farce.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllThatJazz View Post
    As you’ve earlier mentioned, huge representative juries would probably be a better solution to avoid biased votings – if they could work in practice, that is.
    I supported this idea earlier. Seeing the broadcasters's behaviour (expetiated sveral times) these days not any direct influence is acceptable IMHO.

  4. Legend
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    #134

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabiondo View Post
    The Vanilla Ninja Ninja actually was so popular for that time in Belarus.
    A good example people vote for close music, not countries.

  5. Enthusiast
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    #135

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    @ CC92

    Thanks for answering once again, I see your point regarding the hidden results. As a matter of fact, I wrote the Danish broadcaster last year (and the year before that) asking why they didn't publish the full results - as they've done for several years in Sweden. Never got a saitisfying answer, though.

    In the case of predictability, we obviously disagree. But I would like to know more about thoughts regarding the voters: If EBU skip the juries, should they return to 100% televoting - with the possibility of introducing limited votes per phone? What would be the best solution, according to you?

  6. Expert
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    #136

    Re: Juries- keep'em or trash'em?

    3 Possibilities:

    1st: Get rid of the Juries, and introduce a new Pointssystem were f.e. the Top15 instead of the Top10 gets Points. This reduces Diaspora- and political Voting the most.

    2nd: Keep the System but increace the Size of the Juries to 10-15

    3rd: Keep the 5-headed Juries but reduce their Power to 33%.
    I never walk away na na, walk away na na

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