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Thread: Australia and Sweden

  1. Legend
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    #61

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    @Pawhlen thanks for the tip. I'll listen to it. It was obvious Ken was upset in Lisbon about fan attitudes of a range of things, not the least the schadenfreude at Benjamin. The "dagens sämsta" feature pretty telling.

    edit:
    Wow, very interesting discussion. Christer seems to be more relaxed as the end come closer. The unison and complete diss of the ESC fan community. For being traditional, conservative and of course the cumbersome hating of Sweden. A little like old good "Inför Eurovision" laughs. Most important: They are going to change the app!
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    #62

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Pawhlen View Post
    By the way, Christer was guest in "Schlagerprofilerna" last podcast for this ESC-season released today and there he got a question regarding the reactions when he has done the running order all this years (2013, 2016-2018)

    And all this angry emotions that comes after revealing the running order is only from the fanbase, none of the delegations are complaining at all (which they have right to do if they really want)

    Which means that the producer setting the running order in the final will not go away in the nearest time, because EBU listens more to the actual delegations than they do to the fans (which I think it´s good for the most time, not perfect but still it´s good)
    I can imagine one or two other reasons why delegations supposedly don't complain.
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    #63

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by LalehForWD View Post
    @Pawhlen thanks for the tip. I'll listen to it. It was obvious Ken was upset in Lisbon about fan attitudes of a range of things, not the least the schadenfreude at Benjamin. The "dagens sämsta" feature pretty telling.

    edit:
    Wow, very interesting discussion. Christer seems to be more relaxed as the end come closer. The unison and complete diss of the ESC fan community. For being traditional, conservative and of course the cumbersome hating of Sweden. A little like old good "Inför Eurovision" laughs. Most important: They are going to change the app!
    As I wrote a few weeks ago, I felt that attitude too when I was in Eurovision Village.

    At the same time, if you keep tracking on people, there comes a time when they feel it´s enough (I´m pretty sure Björkman has felt that for quite some time but he is not showing it because he wants to act professional which is good),

    This attitude towards in ESC has been worse the latest 3 years and this year it reached tornado mode. The fact that almost everyone in the press centre cheers and whistles when we get so low in the televoting is not really what I associate with the open good feeling in ESC, it´s pretty disgusting towards the artists no matter which country that get this kind of treatment.

    And this is what Ken means with this attitude towards us Swedes, which depends on this things

    - our placings since 2011
    - that Björkman has been hired as producer the latest two years
    - that swedish composers is being used frequently by other countries
    - that many of the people in the production team working with ESC is swedish (Henke von Z for example)
    - that many changes in the competition as the voting system and deciding the running order has been influenced by Swedes

    And all these fans that get´s offended by this take it out on us normal Swedish fans, who has nothing to do with this at all, direct your anger towards those tv-stations that asks swedish composers to write their song for ESC, instead of mocking on innocent fans, who hard can it be?

    I´m pretty sure fans felt the same way during the 90´s, the only difference there was that Internet was not really established so all this thoughts and reactions were most kept in the living rooms but nowadays, it is simple to just write your thoughts on a forum like this and it´s easy to access and to read both for artists, other fans and for production people
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    #64

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    @Pawhlen Do you agree this phenomenon is confined to the fan community for both Sweden and Australia? That it does not spill over to the average viewer? They discuss the difference between voting habit in Eurovision and voting in Melodifestivalen. They also explain the low televote as natural. I agree our voting was ambiguous this year, but I wouldn't know if it used to be more consistent other years. I still think the average viewer perception of Eurovision is very different between countries. I think the expectations will be more unified as Eurovision develops from a one night TV show to be more of a global multimedia event involving TV, social media, music streaming etc. We are in the midst of it right now and the conservative attitude of the fan community isn't helping a bit (even if they're driving it themselves).

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    #65

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by LalehForWD View Post
    @Pawhlen Do you agree this phenomenon is confined to the fan community for both Sweden and Australia? That it does not spill over to the average viewer? They discuss the difference between voting habit in Eurovision and voting in Melodifestivalen. They also explain the low televote as natural. I agree our voting was ambiguous this year, but I wouldn't know if it used to be more consistent other years. I still think the average viewer perception of Eurovision is very different between countries. I think the expectations will be more unified as Eurovision develops from a one night TV show to be more of a global multimedia event involving TV, social media, music streaming etc. We are in the midst of it right now and the conservative attitude of the fan community isn't helping a bit (even if they're driving it themselves).
    When it comes to fans reactions for us, I think it´s just in that fanbase.

    Their discussion regarding why Benjamin failed in the televote was pretty on point, last time we had something simular inspired by was in 2005 and then we came 19th.

    Otherwise I agree with the bolded. I would say that rather 85-90% of all people that watches ESC every year do it only on the final evening without having seen the performances or know which ones that are favorites and so on, and they vote for what they feel just that evening.

    The genuine hate towards us is exclusive to the fanbase
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    #66

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Swedens Juryvotings since 2009 (without 2010 and 2013 because Sweden wasnt in the Final/ the EBU didnt revealed the Split-Results):

    Jury vs Televote:

    2009: 27 vs 59
    2011: 106 vs 221
    2012: 296 vs 343
    2014: 201 vs 190
    2015: 363 vs 279
    2016: 122 vs 139
    2017: 218 vs 126
    2018: 253 vs 21

    Overall: 1586 vs 1378 (53.5% vs 46.5%)

    This is totally Fair overall. Theres nothing to complain.

    Lets have a look to Australia:

    Jury vs Televoting:
    2015: 224 vs 132
    2016: 320 vs 191
    2017: 171 vs 2
    2018: 90 vs 9

    Overall: 717 vs 334 ( 68.2% vs 31.8%)
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    09: NO | 10: GE | 11: GR | 12: AZ | 13: AZ | 14: ES | 15: SE | 16: SE | 17: BG | 18: AT

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    #67

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Maybe it is a trend since 2014 which gives Australia a bad look?
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  8. Senior Member
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    #68

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    I just have struggles in believing that jury members rank Australia and Sweden higher because they’re Sweden and Australia
    No one does that
    Australia didn’t do well this year and Sweden didn’t do well with the televote and we know from the past that juries don’t save their entries, so this favourism towards Sweden randomly started to happen in 2011 until today?
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  9. Mentor
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    #69

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Preuss View Post
    I just have struggles in believing that jury members rank Australia and Sweden higher because they’re Sweden and Australia
    No one does that
    Australia didn’t do well this year and Sweden didn’t do well with the televote and we know from the past that juries don’t save their entries, so this favourism towards Sweden randomly started to happen in 2011 until today?
    According to fans who started following ESC in the latest 3-4 years, yes. If they would have known the history better, they would have known that the juries is the main reason for our really bad placing in 2009 and the missed final 2010
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    #70

    Re: Australia and Sweden

    I want to defend Australia a bit again because I feel like they're being unfairly criticised in this contest like Azerbaijan was a few years ago since they only sent songs produced by Sweden. Though, the critique of Azerbaijan's "strategy" to send songs made by Swedes have faded by the years as their placings have gotten worse since 2013. I wonder why?

    Now, what annoys me is the fact that ESC fans genuinely believe that the juries favor Australia and Sweden because they are Australia and Sweden. I've mentioned it before, but no one thinks this way. No one thinks that "we'll give this song more than it deserves because it's representing Sweden or Australia". However if these claims are right, this way of thinking happens every year through five different jurors in over 40 countries...? Highly unlikely that this is the reason why Sweden and Australia use to do well with juries.

    The claims that the name of the country is enough to get enough points from juries are ridiculous lol... "If this represented another country, it wouldn't do as well." HAH. I think Aminata's second place in 2015, representing the mighty superpower in ESC - Latvia(!) proves everyone wrong. Juries will reward your entry regardless of which country you're representing! Bulgaria's done well with the juries since 2016 with Poli when they started to put an effort in their entries. Suddenly out of the blue, Bulgaria's doing well? Why Bulgaria? And even better in 2017 with Kristian? Yes, Bulgaria does well because their entries were high quality.

    However back to Australia, these conspiracy theories about juries favoring Australia started back in 2016 when Dami Im won the jury vote by a landslide to Ukraine. Sound of Silence was an obvious jury winner. I also got the vibes that Australia winning the jury vote with over 100 points to Ukraine was more of a problem than Australia actually winning the jury vote. So if Ukraine was 10-50 points behind, it would not have been as bad to see Australia win the jury vote? Salvador got more points from the juries in 2017 than Dami in 2016, so if Portugal's 2016 entry got 200+ points from the juries, everyone would've conspired about juries suddenly favourising Portugal after sending stronger entries to the ESC stage... no? Australia deserved every point they got from the juries in 2015 and 2016.

    I think what people are more angry and suspicious about is Isaiah's fourth place with the juries in 2017 with "Don't Come Easy". I did not like Portugal 2017 that much, not as much to give it that many jury points as Salvador got. Does it necessarily mean that Salvador didn't deserve his first place with the juries? NO! I can understand why he won the juries despite not liking the entry myself! I just think the juries respected this entry because of Isaiah's voice and that it looked slick and professional. And the song is also very well produced no matter how much you may dislike it. I totally understand that viewers didn't connect with it, but I understand why juries liked the entry.

    And people have to remember that 2017 was the weakest ESC year the recent years. Isaiah wouldn't have placed fourth with 171 points for example this year or 2015 or 2016. And it's not like Isaiah got many top points either... zero 12s, however five 10s and three 8s. More than half of the countries that Australia got points from in 2017 were between the points 1-6. An important part is of course to get as many top points as possible, but it's also important to appeal to as many juries as possible. Imagine getting 2-6 points from every country! So can we genuinely say that Australia's overrated after receiving five 10s and three 8s? I don't think so. That's not how I define overrated.

    And Australia and Sweden going well "no matter what" is outdated. We saw it this year with Jessica last (somehow) in the televotes and Benjamin like only getting 20 points from the televoters. Juries did not save Australia either with rewarding Jessica 90 points and an equal 11th place in the jury vote. A country does not do well in Eurovision by simply representing the country they do. Absolutely everything speaks against it.

    Deal with it, Australia and Sweden send quality entries every year. You might not approve of them or like their entries, but stop raving about the fact that they do better than your personal favorites. Yes they might be sending so called "traditional", "boring" pop songs, but hell yes am I glad that Sweden and Australia are in this competition and playing the game.

    peace peace love
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