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Thread: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

  1. Ninja
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    #91

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Just discovered something mysterious on the Czech Voting:

    Juror B (Eddie Stoilow):

    1 Portugal
    2 Australia
    3 Netherlands
    4 Sweden
    5 Denmark
    6 Austria
    7 Moldova
    8 Belrus
    9 Bulgaria
    10 United Kingdom
    11 Belgium
    12 Poland
    13 Israel
    14 Azerbaijan
    15 Norway
    16 Germany
    17 Italy
    18 Ukraine
    19 France
    20 Cyprus
    21 Greece
    22 Armenia
    23 Croatia
    24 Hungary
    25 Spain
    26 Romania

    Juror D (Katerina Rihova):

    1 Portugal
    2 Australia
    3 Netherlands
    4 Sweden
    5 Denmark
    6 Austria
    7 Moldova
    8 Belrus
    9 Bulgaria
    10 United Kingdom
    11 Belgium
    12 Poland
    13 Israel
    14 Azerbaijan
    15 Norway
    16 Germany
    17 Italy
    18 Ukraine
    19 France
    20 Cyprus
    21 Greece
    22 Armenia
    23 Croatia
    24 Hungary
    25 Spain
    26 Romania

    It must have been a very huge coincidence as it seems.

  2. Junkie
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    #92

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Coincidence of course here is example from a certain jury results from 2016 (2nd semifinal)

    Jury member 1:
    1 Ukraine
    2 Israel
    3 Australia
    4 Bulgaria
    5 Belgium
    6 Lithuania
    7 Norway
    8 Slovenia
    9 Georgia
    10 Latvia
    11 Serbia
    12 Albania
    13 FYR Macedonia
    14 Belarus
    15 Switzerland
    16 Denmark
    17 Ireland

    Her husband (!):
    Everything the same, except:
    - Switzerland and Denmark switched position (15-16)
    - Serbia, Albania, FYR Macedonia and Belarus in different order (14-11th instead of 11-14th)

    Fishy aswell

  3. Ninja
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    #93

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    It was of course a joke with Coincidence

    Im really shocked that you talk about Monika. I never expected her to do such corupt things
    Maybe it would be better if the EBU started to allow deciding together. But I can also imagine that Poland and this Year Czech Rep. were punished outside publicity to avoid more drama.

  4. Junkie
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    #94

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    How do you know it was Monika? I tried to hide the fact it was Polish jury anyway they didn't make their rankings separately, where was that person from EBU who should prevent from such things happening?

  5. Ninja
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    #95

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by blue00eyes View Post
    How do you know it was Monika? I tried to hide the fact it was Polish jury anyway they didn't make their rankings separately, where was that person from EBU who should prevent from such things happening?

    I knew it from the beginning

    Of Course both of them decided their ranking together at home and memorised it, making only one mistake by putting bulgaria and belgium (4th and 5th) in different orders.

  6. Junkie
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    #96

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Oh didn't notice Belgium and Bulgaria.

  7. Ninja
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    #97

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Azerbaijans Juryvoting in the Semi:

    Juror A / B:
    1: AL/PT
    2: PT/AL

    4: AU/AU

    3: ME / GE
    5: MD /ME
    6: GE / MD

    7: CZ/ CZ
    8: IS / IS
    9: PL / PL

    10: LV/FI
    11: FI/LV

    12: SL/SL
    13: SE/SE
    14: GR/GR
    15: BE/BE
    16: CY/CY
    17: AM/AM

    Juror D/E:

    1: PT/PT

    2: AU/ME
    3: AL/AU
    4: ME/AL

    5: GE/GE
    6: CZ/CZ
    7: MD/MD
    8: PL/PL

    9: IS/LV
    10: FI/IS
    11: LV/ FI

    12: SL/SE
    13: SE/SL

    14: BE/BE
    15: GR/GR
    16: CY/CY
    17: AM/AM


    Juryvoting from Armenia in the Semi:

    Juror B/C/E:

    1: Cy/CY/CY
    2: GR/GR/GR
    3: MD/MD/MD
    4: PT/PT/PT
    17: AZ/AZ/AZ

    Juryvoting Armenia in the Final:

    For Cyprus: 5/4/13/4/4

    For Portugal: 1/1/1/1/1


    Juryvoting Azerbaijan:

    Juror D:

    In the SF: Australia #2 / Cyprus #16
    In the Final: Australia #16 / Cyprus #13


    I think its Time to leave our peaceful, fair Contest for and
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  8. Senior Member
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    #98

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by Realest View Post
    Azerbaijans Juryvoting in the Semi:


    I think its Time to leave our peaceful, fair Contest for and
    Interestingly enough, Cyprus came 14th in the Azeri televote in the final though.

    I guess the commentators didn't mention the fact that he's Armenian

  9. Legend
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    #99

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    I think the juries have been doing a much better job lately since their votes are to be transparently externalised. Both to what decreasing neighbour friendliness concerns as well as them being more in touch with musical reality. This year was a bit of a letdown compared to previous years but then just take a look at their 2011 ranking when they must have been living in a different space. Televoting is a very fair measuring method for determining the upper places but on a less bright side it makes the rest of the ranking be largely decided by friendly voting. This year it became more visible than ever:

    11th Azerbaijan: 37 out of 41* televoting points (90.2%) come from friendly and diaspora-housing countries
    12th Poland: 41 out of 41 (100%))
    13th Belarus: 30 out of 33 (90.9%)
    14th Cyprus: 29 out of 32 (90.6%)
    15th Norway: 16 out of 29 (55.2%)
    16th Greece: 21 out of 29 (72.4%)
    17th Ukraine: 24 out of 24 (100%)
    18th Armenia: 21 out of 21 (100%)
    19th Holland: 11 out 15 (73.3%)
    20th United Kingdom: 11 out of 12 (91.7%)
    21st Denmark: 0 out of 8 (0%) (but 100% local fame)
    22nd Israel: 3 out of 5 points (60%)
    23rd Spain: 5 out of 5 points (100%)
    24th Germany: 3 out of 3 points (100%)
    25th Australia: 0 out of 2 points (0%)
    26th Austria: got no points
    *Not counting made-up vote

    So everyone with a relevant amount of points owes biased donators more than half of them; in the majority of cases it is between 90% and 100%. Which is why I strongly advocate to dilate the range of countries that can receive points up to 15 or 20 entries. When the 12 points system was first adopted 56% of all entries were awarded with points in each national vote. Right now it is less than 40% despite save points being a much more serious issue now than in 1975. Australia and Austria placed significantly more frequently at middling positions than Germany or Spain yet ended up behind them because they did not have that one single biased vote in their favour. Average rankings are definitely more reflective of the collective taste of 'Europe'. If the EBU went back to a full public vote one day they would have to keep this in mind to not again permanently frustrate the countries that are less rich of allies. As for the Top-10, I see no corruption with the order except for Romania and France and Croatia switching positions.

    I also like MyHeartIsYour's suggestion of adding a vote which would give every man the same power regardless of where they live. No country would be (dis)advantaged under such a system if the score for each country was calculated by the percentage of votes it could possibly receive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska49 View Post
    different countries means different cultures and different music they are exposed to. giving the same weight to every country is what accurately describes europe. your idea makes eurovision become a "who can get germany's 12" contest (which is specially dumb because, like, we all know how to get germany's 12: be turkey). it caters excessively to one (or very few) culture, which is not representative of all of europe. good lord.
    National borders are the results of politics and wars, they do not mark homogeneous cultural units. E.g. the houses four different nations whilst the Greek nation allocates to two different countries they are the landlord of. German Turks make up about 5% of my country's population, therefore about 0,5% of Europe's entire population. This is the same power a national has right now.

  10. Junkie
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    #100

    Re: That One Thread About Juries We Have Every Year

    Quote Originally Posted by CC92 View Post
    Televoting is a very fair measuring method for determining the upper places but on a less bright side it makes the rest of the ranking be largely decided by friendly voting.
    Who really cares about the bottom? I don't care my country was 22nd or 18th or whatever.
    It's almost impossible to create a system that will 100% fairly decide the results from first to last place. Desperate tries to invent such a thing will make the voting process weirder and less understandable for viewers and the contest is for viewers and not for jury-who sometimes even made up their rankings to have one
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