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View Full Version : Split jury-televote results revealed!



A-lister
18th June 2012, 15:57
Well, there is already a thread dedicated to the subject of this, but it was started pre- the results were revealed, so I think there should be a separate one for the actual results. So EBU FINALLY revealed the split results between the juries and televoters:

The semi results can be seen here: http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=eurovision_2012_split_jury-televote_results_revealed

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7962/clipboard01du.jpg

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:04
DAMN those juries! Netherlands would have been in the final if it weren't for the juries :cry:

Again the juries taste is typical : big voice = points (regardless of how the song sounds).

This is NOT Idol/X-Factor, when will juries start to understand that it's a song contest?

And Georgia was 8 with the juries... with that so called "song"... :? Such a joke, surely no one in their right senses can take the juries seriously with such results.

Sorry, but the juries are a complete waste of time and joke imo. Experts? My a**!

However, I must say I'm happy that they rewarded the awful Turkish song with low points, but it's pretty obvious the juries are a bunch of party-killers (Romania and their great summer party song would atleast have been top. 10 if it weren't for the grandmas and Simon Cowell queens in the juries).

I'm surprised by the jury love for Ukraine this year, apparently it pays off to KILL a song live (sorry Gaitana, we know you can sing, no need to overdo it though). Wail big = get jury points.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:09
this has to be mentioned again: France had 0 in televote.
not sure if it's funny or sad.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:10
this has to be mentioned again: France had 0 in televote.
not sure if it's funny or sad.

I think she did a good performance, but the song itself is really difficult to get into imo. There's no climax, no actual melody... it's just 3 minutes of... hmm.. some singing.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:14
I just copy my previous comments into this thread (I hope you don't mind) :D

-Some people that were all grumpy about Cyprus' La la love's chances being destroyed by "the juries" (yes, they were blaming the juries): better prepare for a SHOCK.

-Also the suspicion that Lithuania must have been helped by the televotes in semi 2 has now been smashed: it was no. 3 with the 3 televoters and 'just' no. 10 with the juries. To me, that's another shocking result.

-But the most shocking result must be France's televote result . It's an awful thing for Anggun. I already thought the stage performance was messy and hard to understand. But this is not deserved. Quite saddening.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:14
I think she did a good performance, but the song itself is really difficult to get into imo. There's no climax, no actual melody... it's just 3 minutes of... hmm.. some singing.
I agree but 0?
that's...I don't know what it is xrofl2

looks like televoting killed ::hr. no surprise there either xrofl2

so sorry for ::es. juries were right about that one :(

rajo
18th June 2012, 16:15
The juries vote more Easterly than expected: Ukraine, Georgia? Seriously? Killing Switzerland, Norway, Iceland instead....

At least Austria had decent scores with both, which combined to a disastrous 8 points effectively .... :shock:

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:17
Anggun's song is certainly experimental and yes, hard to get into. It might have proven too inaccessible for most televoters, I'm afraid. Unfortunately I also suspect that her appearance (non-European) didn't invite some voters to grab their phones (this is what I suspect for a while now, non-European singers don't do very well at Eurovision, with 1 or 2 exceptions)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:17
I just copy my previous comments into this thread (I hope you don't mind) :D

-Some people that were all grumpy about Cyprus' La la love's chances being destroyed by "the juries" (yes, they were blaming the juries): better prepare for a SHOCK.

I wouldn't call 12th place getting too much "jury love" though. However, in the case of Romania it's pretty obvious the juries are bitter party-killers.

And their hate for Macedonia is unbelievably, seems they only like good live singers when they wail and act all American on us with their vocal gymnastics, but when they have great live vocals but with personality... then the juries doesn't appreciate it. Once again juries prove that being outside the box is wrong. Such boring conventional people these so called "experts" are. Only Albania and Sweden to some extent were a little bit outside of the normal when it comes to the juries' top. 10.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:17
tbh, I can't understand why juries supported ::ua so eagerly.
(no offense to Ukrainian members here, just commenting on the song :mrgreen:)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:19
tbh, I can't understand why juries supported ::ua so eagerly.
(no offense to Ukrainian members here, just commenting on the song :mrgreen:)

Because she was the biggest wailer and over-singer of the evening, and since juries forgot that this is not Simon Cowell's American Idol but Eurovision, they thought they had to support the over-wailing.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 16:19
Copy and paste work your magic!!(O)


Some quite bizarre results. Inparticular Ukraine doing terribly with the public and the jury absolutely loving it, saving it's behind. Jury also giving Georgia a nice 8th, public placing it last. I would have guessed those two would have been the other way round with the public liking them, jury destroying them. Thats really quite surprising to see.

I feel bad for Bulgaria, the jury really wrecked it's chances. The same with Netherlands which I find really quite shocking as I thought Joan's song would have been something the jury would have appreciated.

The jury did alot of damage as well to Turkey in both the semi and final. Lots of damage also done to Jedward (thank the heavens above). Thought Macedonia would have done better with jury than public.

They saved France from an embarrassing, undeserved zero points so thats more proof that the jury are there to do some good and balance things out. Not the best song ever but no way did it deserve an overall zero.

Moldova doing well with the jury is a nice surprise I shant complain about.

Italy did terrible with the public. I knew they would never win since changing "Per Sempre" which I thought did have a chance of winning. However I never thought they would do THIS bad with the public vote.

Rona coming 3rd with them is nice. To be honest, I did not expect the very nice 8th place with the public vote. I just thought the general public would not understand Rona but it seems many have taken her to their hearts.

Although I like the jury being there, could you imagine how exciting the results would have been this year if it was just public? Sweden and Russia constantly switching. Loreen fans having heart attacks haha!

Ok going to faint from typing. Ill stop now.... *breathe in breathe out*

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:20
Excellent c+p, Rainywoods! :p

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:22
Because she was the biggest wailer and over-singer of the evening, and since juries forgot that this is not Simon Cowell's American Idol but Eurovision, they thought they had to support the over-wailing.

I partially disagree. After seeing the rehearsal I knew that Ukrain would do well, the show they put on the stage was 150% convincing. I just didn't expect that televoters wouldn't like it as much as the juries. I expected a more even result for Ukrain.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:22
in the case of Romania it's pretty obvious the juries are bitter party-killers.

I have to disagree here.
juries didn't kill all dance songs. obviously :mrgreen:
also, Romania was a cute, bumpy little song (and I did like it) but in reality, it's a girl from Romania singing in Spanish (I always disliked those combinations - like we sing in italian next year or something) and repeating a non-existing word. + the performace lacked something, not sure what.
xshrug

(again, not trying to offend any1 here, just commenting on the songs :mrgreen:)

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:24
The juries are NOT party-killers, that's quite a prejudice. Otherwise they would've also killed Ukrains or Swedens song which obviously they didn't. Plenty of proof for this, throughout all these years.

dizzydjc
18th June 2012, 16:27
Wow, loving those results actually. Like somebody said, seeing France being bottom with a great big fat zero proves that the juries are needed to balance things out and keeps things interesting.

The other big shock for me is Ukraine doing terribly with the televotes, especially in SF2. I always thought they were televote kings. I don't want to start any racism issues, but is this because of the obvious? Maybe Christer Bjorkman was right after all?

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:27
I have to disagree here.
juries didn't kill all dance songs. obviously :mrgreen:
also, Romania was a cute, bumpy little song (and I did like it) but in reality, it's a girl from Romania singing in Spanish (I always disliked those combinations - like we sing in italian next year or something) and repeating a non-existing word. + the performace lacked something, not sure what.
xshrug

(again, not trying to offend any1 here, just commenting on the songs :mrgreen:)

Well, the juries weren't bothered with the awful combo of Italian and English in the Italian song now were they?

And although I agree the performance lacked some, it didn't lack as much to be put in the bottom? Again.. is this a SONG contest or European Idol or The Voice of Europe? The juries still treat it as the latter. They want those conventional ballads to be on top... actually nowadays the jury votes are probably more predictable than the televotes.

dezbee2008
18th June 2012, 16:28
France getting 0 from the televoting has to be the biggest joke I've seen with this.

Not surprised to see Serbia and Albania high with the juries. I agree with the televoting on Spain and Iceland. And the Jury got it wrong with Turkey.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:29
They want those conventional ballads to be on top... actually nowadays the jury votes are probably more predictable than the televotes.

That's another typical gross prejudice about the juries. When you look at the results of the past 10 years you can see that what you write is simply not true.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:30
And the Jury got it wrong with Turkey.

If they got one thing right, it has to be that. That infantile song deserved to be in the bottom. Sadly diaspora came to rescue as usual.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:30
The other big shock for me is Ukraine doing terribly with the televotes, especially in SF2. I always thought they were televote kings. I don't want to start any racism issues, but is this because of the obvious?
I hope not. that would be really pathetic.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:31
That's another typical gross prejudice about the juries. When you look at the results of the past 10 years you can see that what you write is simply not true.

10 years? The juries have been here for 3,5 years.

If you look back in time, I'm very much correct on that analyze. Anything out of the box or not conventional ballads struggled badly before televoting were introduced.

rajo
18th June 2012, 16:31
tbh, I can't understand why juries supported ::ua so eagerly.
(no offense to Ukrainian members here, just commenting on the song :mrgreen:)


That's fishy and maybe political. You know after all the fuzz about Ukranian politics, Timoshenko and the boycotting soccer championships by Western politicians, it seems like some sort of compensation by the Eurovision juries.....

It's very interesting that Ukraine did so badly with televoting. That's the second time after 2005, when they screwed up hosting the Eurovision. This country seemed unsinkable so far, but actually it isn't.

eerik
18th June 2012, 16:32
So where are the angry Cypriots now? I want to hear it again how Cyprus was in top 5 with televoting...

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 16:34
The jury confuse the absolute hell out of me. Infact the jury AND public confuse me. They do sorta smooth the results out abit. I would not trust the public in having a 100% say, though neither would I the jury. I like them in the contest as they have rewarded well some very "classy" (the only word my brain can find at the moment to describe them) hmmm darker I suppose songs such as "Et Sil Fallait Le Faire" and "Suus". Also "Madness Of Love". Other than that though they are very inconsistant and seem almost random in what they'll favour. Jedward were like what 5th, 6th maybe last year with them. This year 25th!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry but that is a massive change of heart. A good change of heart dare I add:rolleyes:

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:34
So where are the angry Cypriots now? I want to hear it again how Cyprus was in top 5 with televoting...

Tick tock, I'm waiting for them too....:D

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 16:35
Well, the juries weren't bothered with the awful combo of Italian and English in the Italian song now were they?

And although I agree the performance lacked some, it didn't lack as much to be put in the bottom? Again.. is this a SONG contest or European Idol or The Voice of Europe? The juries still treat it as the latter. They want those conventional ballads to be on top... actually nowadays the jury votes are probably more predictable than the televotes.
6 more or less conventional ballads in juries' top 10. it is rather difficult to discuss it cause IMO, those ballads really were good.
further more, highest rank for a ballad is 3rd place overall.what about that? xshrug

regarding italian-english combo...I know where you're going with that and all I can say is that I don't like it either :mrgreen:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:35
Surprised the public showed more love to the UK than the juries actually...

and yeah, the juries also did a correct job with Ireland (as they did with Turkey).

Other than that I'm not really sure what I think.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 16:35
this has to be mentioned again: France had 0 in televote.
not sure if it's funny or sad.

I think it's good :D This entry was very uninteresting, there were many others that deserved the televoters attention :D

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:36
The jury confuse the absolute hell out of me. Infact the jury AND public confuse me. They do sorta smooth the results out abit. I would not trust the public in having a 100% say, though neither would I the jury. I like them in the contest as they have rewarded well some very "classy" (the only word my brain can find at the moment to describe them) hmmm darker I suppose songs such as "Et Sil Fallait Le Faire" and "Suus". Also "Madness Of Love". Other than that though they are very inconsistant and seem almost random in what they'll favour. Jedward were like what 5th, 6th maybe last year with them. This year 25th!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry but that is a massive change of heart. A good change of heart dare I add:rolleyes:

I too think juries do play an important role in Eurovision (even when they helped sink NL's chances this year).

Jedwards' song last year was simply much stronger imo than this year.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 16:36
I find good and bad things in both televoting and juries... I think both are needed :p Take it easy A-lister :lol:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:37
6 more or less conventional ballads in juries' top 10. it is rather difficult to discuss it cause IMO, those ballads really were good.
further more, highest rank for a ballad is 3rd place overall.what about that? xshrug

regarding italian-english combo...I know where you're going with that and all I can say is that I don't like it either :mrgreen:

I'm not saying all those ballads were bad, it's just very 'typical' juries though.

I consider Serbia to be a ballad aswell. And for the more uptempo stuff the juries supported, most were quite conventional and no big surprises (like Italy for instance).

And yeah, if one can use split language use as an excuse for bad ranking, then I think it must be used for all entries using that ;)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:38
I find good and bad things in both televoting and juries... I think both are needed :p Take it easy A-lister :lol:

Netherlands, one of the most genuine and nice songs didn't make it to the final thanks to those damn conventional juries... so no.. I'm not taking it easy! :lol:

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:41
Netherlands, one of the most genuine and nice songs didn't make it to the final thanks to those damn conventional juries... so no.. I'm not taking it easy! :lol:

I think if the juries acted more the way you claim that they act, they would've ranked Spain, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and UK with their ballads (considerably) higher than in actuality.

doctormalisimo
18th June 2012, 16:42
I think for the first time ever, I would have preferred it if we didnt have juries. Firstly Ireland would have top 10ed. And it wouldnt have been a landslide for Loreen, the voting would have actually been interesting to watch (also, Ireland would have gotten to decide the winner at the end :mrgreen: ) and Ukraine would have been laughably in the semis. The Netherlands and Switzerland would also have qualified...

I do thank the juries however for bringing Malta to the final. And for kicking Greece out of the top 10. And for saving little Anggun from humiliation.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:44
But I thought you hated your own country's song this year, doctor?

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 16:45
Netherlands, one of the most genuine and nice songs didn't make it to the final thanks to those damn conventional juries... so no.. I'm not taking it easy! :lol:

I loved the song too and thought it should have made it, however, whatever we say, her performance was everything but flawless I'm afraid :?

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 16:46
But I thought you hated your own country's song this year, doctor?

I was about to say that too! :lol:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:48
I loved the song too and thought it should have made it, however, whatever we say, her performance was everything but flawless I'm afraid :?

Oh so this IS European Idol? I didn't know... last time I checked it was Eurovision SONG Contest.

The fact that the juries put that MESS of a song the Georgian entry was in the top. 10, but totally screwed Netherlands and also Bulgaria over, imo proves how infantile they are. They simply ONLY judge live vocals... they couldn't even be bothered if the songs can't even be considered songs or if the singers slaughter ok songs with over-singing (Ukraine and Estonia I look at you!).

rajo
18th June 2012, 16:48
I still hope for more countries to reveal their split votes.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 16:50
We basically lost out on only three countries I believe.. Netherlands, Bulgaria and Switzerland. All three would have only just made it with a pure public vote so the jury did not do anything too extreme. They saved Ukraine, Malta and Hungary who would not have gone through without their help. Looking at it like that, I would much rather have the three the public favoured. The jury helped Rona achieve a nice 5th place though, brought some sanity to Jedwards placing and stopped Anggun from getting zero so im happy with their job this year :)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:50
I think if the juries acted more the way you claim that they act, they would've ranked Spain, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and UK with their ballads (considerably) higher than in actuality.

You think Spain and Azerbaijan got low rankings? Top. 5 and top. 10 out of 26 (42) is pretty good imo.

I agree though that I'm surprised that televoters liked UK more than the juries... but then again the UK was kind of dated and conventional, but it wasn't that wailing American Idol stuff the juries like.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:52
We basically lost out on only three countries I believe.. Netherlands, Bulgaria and Switzerland. All three would have only just made it with a pure public vote so the jury did not do anything too extreme. They saved Ukraine, Malta and Hungary who would not have gone through without their help. Looking at it like that, I would much rather have the three the public favoured. The jury helped Rona achieve a nice 5th place though, brought some sanity to Jedwards placing and stopped Anggun from getting zero so im happy with their job this year :)

I still think it's a disgrace how so called musical "experts" can put such a mess as Georgia's entry in the top. 10, and leaving out a genuine gem as the Dutch one.

I agree about Jedward though.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 16:52
Oh so this IS European Idol? I didn't know... last time I checked it was Eurovision SONG Contest.

The fact that the juries put that MESS of a song the Georgian entry was in the top. 10, but totally screwed Netherlands and also Bulgaria over, imo proves how infantile they are. They simply ONLY judge live vocals... they couldn't even be bothered if the songs can't even be considered songs or if the singers slaughter ok songs with over-singing (Ukraine and Estonia I look at you!).

I was just expressing an opinion, not into arguing, really. ;) But if you call Ukranian song an 'ok song' I call it rubbish. And if a singer doesn't do his/her job the best they can, than at least the jury must take that into consideration. IMO, we have enough nonsense with televoting. ;)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 16:56
I was just expressing an opinion, not into arguing, really. ;) But if you call Ukranian song an 'ok song' I call it rubbish. And if a singer doesn't do his/her job the best they can, than at least the jury must take that into consideration. IMO, we have enough nonsense with televoting. ;)

I'm not arguing with you, I just think that if this should be treated as a vocal gymnastics contest, then we could use other concepts for that purpose alone.

Of course singers should do as good as they can, but bad songs shouldn't get rewarded just because they have a good live singer and singers over-wailing and over-singing is something only Simon Cowell appreciates (and apparently the ESC juries aswell).

Of course a bad performance shouldn't be rewarded, but why should bad songs (hello Georgia) be rewarded in a song contest?

Mozz
18th June 2012, 16:58
You think Spain and Azerbaijan got low rankings? Top. 5 and top. 10 out of 26 (42) is pretty good imo.

I agree though that I'm surprised that televoters liked UK more than the juries... but then again the UK was kind of dated and conventional, but it wasn't that wailing American Idol stuff the juries like.

For Spain and Azerbaijan, I mean even a bit higher.
For Bosnia and UK: considerably higher than where they eventually ranked.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 17:00
For Spain and Azerbaijan, I mean even a bit higher.
For Bosnia and UK: considerably higher than where they eventually ranked.

I think they were already overrated in the jury votes, so I can't agree.

As for the UK, I already expressed that I was surprised... but then again it wasn't an American Idol wail type of ballad... so maybe I'm not that surprised afterall. Bosnia wasn't an over-wailing mess either... so.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 17:01
Of course a bad performance shouldn't be rewarded, but why should bad songs (hello Georgia) be rewarded in a song contest?
Georgia is the biggest mystery, at least for me.
unbelievable.

what conclusions can we draw from that fact? (remain serious, plz :D)
are they ignoring lyrics completely? just music and singing? even tho his singing wasn't THAT great.
xwhat

A-lister
18th June 2012, 17:03
Georgia is the biggest mystery, at least for me.
unbelievable.

what conclusions can we draw from that fact? (remain serious, plz :D)
are they ignoring lyrics completely? just music and singing? even tho his singing wasn't THAT great.
xwhat

Well, one conclusion we can draw is that the so called "music experts" either smoke weed or are just not experts at all (I think it's the latter) :lol:

Seriously though, it proves they doesn't give a f about this being a song contest, they just bother about the live vocals.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 17:03
I still think it's a disgrace how so called musical "experts" can put such a mess as Georgia's entry in the top. 10, and leaving out a genuine gem as the Dutch one.

I agree about Jedward though.

Georgia's song makes me laugh in the same way Russia's song does and is very much a guilty pleasure of mine. Jury placing it 8th is weird but you should be happy it did not go through at least. I'm really sad for The Netherlands and Bulgaria but they would have only just managed to have gone through anyway. I very much love Turkey's song musically and the quirky style of Can but I know you hate it. I'm sure that you are very happy with how the jury voted on that one though. I think we are all gonna win some and lose some. There will no doubt be casualties along the way but the jury does even things out and brings a better, more rounded result in my opinion to what it would be otherwise just with televote. I honestly do not trust the public. The Eurovision jury must be on something though as well:lol:

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 17:06
Seriously though, it proves they doesn't give a f about this being a song contest, they just bother about the live vocals.
yeah but in that semi, Lithuania was 10th by juries and IMO, Donny sang very well, better than Anri. in fact, he saved that song.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 17:06
Georgia's song makes me laugh in the same way Russia's song does and is very much a guilty pleasure of mine. Jury placing it 8th is weird but you should be happy it did not go through at least. I'm really sad for The Netherlands and Bulgaria but they would have only just managed to have gone through anyway. I very much love Turkey's song musically and the quirky style of Can but I know you hate it. I'm sure that you are very happy with how the jury voted on that one though. I think we are all gonna win some and lose some. There will no doubt be casualties along the way but the jury does even things out and brings a better, more rounded result in my opinion to what it would be otherwise just with televote. I honestly do not trust the public. The Eurovision jury must be on something though as well:lol:

I think you're quite alone on Georgia (it ended last in televoting). Of course we all have our personal taste, but in general it was considered a mess of a song (and not at all the cute little gimmick many thought the Russian one was).

I don't like the Turkish entry because the melody and lyrics were infantile. I like Can's style though and the background music... but in that case I speak only out of my personal opinion of course... but in the Georgian case I think I can argue on behalf of a wider public opinion.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 17:11
I'm not arguing with you, I just think that if this should be treated as a vocal gymnastics contest, then we could use other concepts for that purpose alone.

Of course singers should do as good as they can, but bad songs shouldn't get rewarded just because they have a good live singer and singers over-wailing and over-singing is something only Simon Cowell appreciates (and apparently the ESC juries aswell).

Of course a bad performance shouldn't be rewarded, but why should bad songs (hello Georgia) be rewarded in a song contest?


I also agree the song from Georgia was cr*ppy, can't also understand why jury rewarded Ukraine so many points. xshrug

What I think is that aside from the song, televoters and jury must (or should) consider how good the performance itself really is and how good singers can stand up for their songs, otherwise, why should EBU even bother to have live shows?
What I honestly think is that both jury and televoting are needed. If you check both their rankings, you will agree and disagree with results. There's not such a thing as 'flawless method' of choosing the winner. I was honestly bored with having only televoters (and all the predictable outcome). And I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with having only the jury as well.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 17:13
I also agree the song from Georgia was ********, can't also understand why jury rewarded Ukraine so many pointd. xshrug

What I think is that aside from the song, televoters and jury must (or should) consider how good the performance itself really is and how good singers can stand up for their songs otherwise, why should EBU even bother to have live shows?
What I honestly think is that both jury and televoting is needed. If you check both their rankings, you will agree and disagree with results. There's not such a thing as 'flawless method' of choosing the winner. I was honestly bored with having only televoters (and all the predictable outcome). And I'm sure I wouldn't be happy with having only the jury as well.

Yes, but just as a bad performance shouldn't be rewarded, obviously the same should count for bad songs right? I mean afterall it is a song contest, not some vocal karaoke contest (Idol, The Voice, X-Factor). I mean why even have rules for songs if only voices counts? Doesn't make sense to me.

Other than that I partly agree with you.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 17:16
I think you're quite alone on Georgia (it ended last in televoting). Of course we all have our personal taste, but in general it was considered a mess of a song (and not at all the cute little gimmick many thought the Russian one was).

I don't like the Turkish entry because the melody and lyrics were infantile. I like Can's style though and the background music... but in that case I speak of my personal opinion of course... but in the Georgian case I think I can argue on behalf of a wider public opinion.

Please don't think I regard "I'm A Joker" as some kind of misunderstood musical gem:o I know it's to put it as politely as I can, abit crap but to me it's one of those soo bad it's actually quite good kind of songs. I should not support it at all as it's the type of song that gives Eurovision a bad name, it's like watching a disaster scene in a movie. I wanna see it!!! To be honest though, I do think musically it's quite... interesting. Anri himself though, thats another matter.

Lyrically Can's song isnt the greatest but I can't say any of the songs impress me lyrically besides Suus. Eurovision is the home of cliché. More than anything I enjoy Eurovision for the quirk, the novelty and the ethnic sounds I would not hear anywhere else. God i'm a bad fan:oops:

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 17:18
So the televoters were actually kinder to Engelbert than juries :o

rajo
18th June 2012, 17:19
Russia is now on the record with the biggest disagree between televote and juries. Difference: 238 points. More points than Greece in 2005 or Azerbaijan in 2011. Incredible.

LakZaNokte
18th June 2012, 17:21
Russia is now on the record with the biggest disagree between televote and juries. Difference: 238 points. More points than Greece in 2005 or Azerbaijan in 2011. Incredible.
that was expected from the beginning xshrug

A-lister
18th June 2012, 17:22
Please don't think I regard "I'm A Joker" as some kind of misunderstood musical gem:o I know it's to put it as politely as I can, abit crap but to me it's one of those soo bad it's actually quite good kind of songs. I should not support it at all as it's the type of song that gives Eurovision a bad name, it's like watching a disaster scene in a movie. I wanna see it!!! To be honest though, I do think musically it's quite... interesting. Anri himself though, thats another matter.

:lol: ... I don't think you did either, I just don't think the majority would agree that it's novelty, fun or whatever in the same sense as the Russian entry was, and that could also explain the difference in public support for the two. But as I said, we all have our taste and personal guilty pleasures, but I was speaking from a more general perspective.



Lyrically Can's song isnt the greatest but I can't say any of the songs impress me lyrically besides Suus. Eurovision is the home of cliché. More than anything I enjoy Eurovision for the quirk, the novelty and the ethnic sounds I would not hear anywhere else. God i'm a bad fan:oops:

Well, it's true ESC is not really a 'lyrical contest', it's just that they were overly infantile ("Singing na na na na na....") and the melody was childish imo. It was one of those entries I was very let-down by, because on paper Can's name was very interesting (his album is pretty good) and I tend to like those Turk-Pop entries, but this was just too childish and repeating for my taste.

Marie Jane
18th June 2012, 17:25
The biggest surprises for me are:

SF1
-Moldova 2nd with the juries doing better than with televoters;
-Greece 3rd with the juries;
-Iceland and Switzerland out of jury top10; Switzerland screwed by juries... i can't forgive them. :(

SF2
-Ukraine 3rd with the juries... i mean, what the hell? She has a wonderful voice, yes, but the song really sucks.
-Lithuania 3rd with televoters. :lol:
-Estonia 5th with televoters. I didn't expected Ott to do so good.
-Netherlands screwed by the juries. Too bad!
-Georgia 8th with the juries. What is wrong with them?
-Norway and Netherlands in jury bottom 2... hummm... strange.
-Ukraine almost last with televoters. :lol:


Final:
-Spain and Italy very low on televoting;
-France 0 points... well, she deserved much more.
-Germany doing better with televoters than with juries. How could they gave more points to Ukraine and Moldova?
-Romania totally screwed by juries. Again... how could they gave more points to Ukraine?
-Turkey screwed by juries. I can't say that i wasn't expected that, but 22nd is very low.
-Ireland screwed by juries. Honestly, i wasn't expecting them to be on televoting top10. And second last with the juries is really, really, really unfair.
-United Kindom last with the juries. Unexpected.

QwaarJet
18th June 2012, 17:31
Overall, I'm happy with the jury results in the final. Less so in the semis. What it shows is that the juries are doing their jobs in the final for the most part. If we just had televoting, look at how good Russia would have done. Ireland as well. Televoters in general can be idiots sometimes. I'm glad strong voices got rewarded, although I prefer when they are accompanied by a great song (Serbia, Albania and Spain) as opposed to Estonia, which was all voice.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 17:31
Russia is now on the record with the biggest disagree between televote and juries. Difference: 238 points. More points than Greece in 2005 or Azerbaijan in 2011. Incredible.

More incredible than that was their final placing :mrgreen:

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 17:32
-France 0 points... well, she deserved much more.

Did she? :o

Jukica
18th June 2012, 17:43
Some things have suprised me :o

France 0 pts in televotes xshock I thought that she got like at least a few pts from televotes

Synergise
18th June 2012, 17:45
These results are simply bizarre :s

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 17:46
This is chocking me:

- Ukraine 17th in Semifinal 2 and ranked 20th by televoters in final. It makes me happy, because Ukraine is always overrated

- France last by televoters in final. What?!

- Norway 6th by televoters, and 18TH BY JURY IN SF2? what the..

- Bulgaria was very unliked by the jury

- If it only had been televoters only, it would have been a kickass voting, it would have been so exciting i would have died :o Sweden 343 and Russia 332

- In SF2 Sweden beated Serbia by only 4 points when it comes to jury

- Italy 17th and Iceland 19th when it comes to televoting. Those where in my top 3 :(

- How could Sweden get more points even if jury did not rate them 372?

- Jury fked up semifinal 2

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 17:46
I wanna kill the jury, what do you mean Moldova 2nd in SF1? WHAT DO YOU MEAN WITH GEORGIA 9TH!? WHAT

alca
18th June 2012, 17:46
I will quote myself from my blog.

Semi-final 1

Just take a look at Cyprus and Iceland! Cyprus came 6th in the televoting and 4th in the jury vote and Iceland came 8th in the televoting and 11th in the jury vote! Just wow! I was expecting this to be the other way around! I thought Iceland was a jury bait and would have scored higher and Cyprus was the cheesy (?) pop that would have scored a lot higher in the televoting and lower in the jury vote! I'm surprised to see Israel in the top 10 if we only had the juries! And Finland was 12th no matter what. Russia 1st in the televoting and 8th in the jury vote. Quite a difference! Moldova 2nd in the jury vote? Seriously? And Greece 3rd?! I'm really surprised! What happened to the juries this year? And Switzerland would have made it if it was only for the televoting...

Semi-final 2

Hm Sweden and Serbia both came 1st and 2nd respectively both in the jury vote and televoting. Lithuania 3rd in the televoting and 10th in the jury vote?! Turkey 13th in the jury vote! Malta 5th in the jury vote but 11th in the televoting. Never thought that they would have scored higher in the jury vote! Ukraine came 17th in the televoting and 3rd in the jury vote?!?!?!?! This is too hard to believe! It seems as if they made some kind of mistake here and the televoting is actually the jury vote! Norway was 18th in the jury vote! :O Oh my God! And Bulgaria 17th?! But 9th in the televoting! This is shocking! Really! Ok here comes the biggest shock of the second semi! Georgia was 8th in the jury vote! AH COME ON!!!!!!! Are they on drugs or something? And my lovely Belarus would have stayed out of the final no matter what. :( Finally Slovenia was 16th in the televoting and 14th in the jury vote... :S

Final

:( I don't know what's wrong with you people... Spain came 18th in televoting but 5th in the jury vote... *sigh* Russia 11th in the jury vote but still 2nd in the televoting. Turkey 4th in the televoting (oh God!) and 22nd in the jury vote (yeah that). And Italy 17th in the televoting but 4th in the jury vote! Wow! Romania 7th in the televoting (they should have finished in the top 10!!) and 20th in the jury vote so I guess the 12th place was ok for them. Cyprus was 15th in the televoting and 12th in the jury vote. That's interesting... Now I really don't get this about Ukraine! 20th in the televoting but 7th in the jury vote! What's wrong with the juries?! Greece would have kept the record of being in the top 10 every year since 2004 if we had only the televoting! Iceland 19th no matter what and that's surprising since everyone thought this would have finished in the top 3! Ireland 10th in the televoting but 25th in the jury vote!! France came last in the televoting with 0 points!! But 13th in the jury vote! United Kingdom 21st in the televoting but last in the jury vote and finally Norway came 24th both in the televoting and the jury vote...

Jukica
18th June 2012, 17:47
Did anyone see that Greece was 3rd in jury and 5th in televotes in semi? :o I first thought that they've mixed up the columns :lol:

RomanFromRussia
18th June 2012, 17:47
I think that jury don't wanna see famous artists from UK in ESC

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 17:49
-United Kindom last with the juries. Unexpected.
Agree, i thought Engelbert (in my languange, Angel Bert) was going to be jurys pet.

Jukica
18th June 2012, 17:50
I thought that UK will be TOP10 or even TOP5 by jury, bottom 3 by televoting and that they'll be around 15th - 20th place in the end hmm

escandesc
18th June 2012, 17:54
22nd in jury vote? oh really? Hadise with her terrible voice came 8th in jury voting. sorry but Can's place in jury voing is really UNDERrated
and about Russia... how could it possily do well just as Sweden did in televoting? their points are so close!
and it is for sure that jury votes for ballads, which makes me sick. seeing Albania's 3rd place, I just want to die. She has a great voice, which is undeniable, but, the song really deserves that place??? after all, this is a SONG contest not voice.
Ukraine got a higher place than Germany did in jury's voting? I can't believe it! I've begun to detest this contest...

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 17:54
Pictures of a jurygroup voting in sf2 :)

http://cdn1.hark.com/images/000/005/205/5205/original.0

Synergise
18th June 2012, 17:55
Just 11 points for the UK... even Josh did better in the jury vote >.<

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 17:55
22nd in jury vote? oh really? Hadise with her terrible voice came 8th in jury voting. sorry but Can's place in jury voing is really UNDERrated
and about Russia... how could it possily do well just as Sweden did in televoting? their points are so close!
and it is for sure that jury votes for ballads, which makes me sick. seeing Albania's 3rd place, I just want to die. She has a great voice, which is undeniable, but, the song really deserves that place??? after all, this is a SONG contest not voice.
Ukraine got a higher place than Germany did in jury's voting? I can't believe it! I've begun to detest this contest...
Hadise could sing in english..

CPV4931
18th June 2012, 17:57
Germany 6th in Televote? Never expected that... I thought, we would be around #6 in the jury´s vote and around #13 in Televote.

escandesc
18th June 2012, 17:57
Hadise could sing in english..

Could Lena really sing in English??

Jukica
18th June 2012, 17:58
@escandesc Albania did good in both jury and televoting, so not really suprised for that one :D

Ukraine doing better in jury is definitely more shocking for me, I've expected the opposite (TOP10 televoting, bottom 10 jury) :o

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 18:00
Could Lena really sing in English??
Can could not do it. Lena had just a sooo cute accent :D

Mozz
18th June 2012, 18:05
Did anyone see that Greece was 3rd in jury and 5th in televotes in semi? :o I first thought that they've mixed up the columns :lol:

Yes, I'm still waiting for the Cyprus brigade to come and express themselves. There was a bunch of folks (after Eurovision was over) accusing the juries having killed the dance entries of Cypus-Greece-Romania, while now in fact the juries gave these entries HIGHER ranks than the televoters. Isn't it highly ironic??

escandesc
18th June 2012, 18:07
@escandesc Albania did good in both jury and televoting, so not really suprised for that one :D

at least, she was 8th in televoting, which can be acceptable but 3rd in jury's voting and 5th in combined voting is unacceptable.


Can could not do it. Lena had just a sooo cute accent :D

Lena's having a sooo cute accent doesn't change she couldn't sing that song in English at all...

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:19
Yes, I'm still waiting for the Cyprus brigade to come and express themselves. There was bunch of folks (after Eurovision was over) accusing the juries having killed the dance entries of Cypus-Greece-Romania, while now in fact the juries gave these entries HIGHER ranks than the televoters. Isn't it highly ironic??

How did the juries rank Romania's entry higher when it was #7 in televotes and #20 with juries?

Anastasia15
18th June 2012, 18:20
Can could not do it. Lena had just a sooo cute accent :D

Can's accent was cute, too :)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:22
Can's accent was cute, too :)

His song wasn't though.

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 18:22
OMG , what a voting :o :o I just can't believe how many suprises :o :o

I will try to write my review of split votes :)

FINAL

::se Sweden - as I predicted,Sweden won both jury and televote,deserved :) , but I thought that will have more points from juries than televoting :o

::ru Russia - expected 2nd place in televote,happy that it's out of Top 10 in juries voting xcheer ( Now I have some confidence in juries !!!!! Yey xcheer )

::rs Serbia - expected

::tr Turkey - I predicted 3rd place in televoting,but 4th is overrated for me :? ( expected , unfortunately :( ) ,22nd with juries ,ok :)

::az Azerbaijan - expected

::de Germany - I thought that will get higher position with juries , but I'm happy that he done well with both juries and televote :D

::ro Romania - Yey,7th place for televoting xcheer ( expected ) , but 20th place with juries . Seriously :?: Underrated,underrated!!! ( maybe because of mistake on jury final :? )

::al Albania - quite unexpected 8th place with televoting . Overrated in televoting , Ok place with juries

::gr Greece - all expected

::ie Ireland - 10th place in televoting !!!! Criminally overrated :? :( !! ( and little unexpected ). But juries know what to do with this crap,and that is deserved 25th place ;)

::mk Macedonia - I thought she will do better with juries , and little worse with televoting :?

::ee Estonia - expected , I'm happy with high places for Ott xcheer

::md Moldova - 9th place with juries ! :?: :? Oh , my , seriously :?: OVERRATED 13th with televote --> expected little higher

::lt Lithuania - Overrated with both juries and televote :(

::cy Cyprus - what a suprise :o Higher place with juries than the televoting :o But happy for all Ivi haters who think that she achieved 16th place because of televoting

::ba Bosnia&Herzegovina - imo , she deserved better place in juries , but expected :)

::it Italy - SHOCKING!!!! I can't believe , 17th place with televoting ! CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED !
Thank god that juries have ears and that she achieved 4th place :) I even thought that she will be placed higher with televoting than juries :o

::es Spain - maybe quite expected - low place with televoting but UNDERRATED . Thank you juries for 5th place xkiss

::is Iceland - expected little better place with juries , underrated with juries.

::ua Ukraine - WHAT A SHOCK!!! Can't believe :o Completely turned results!! Can't believe that Ukraine did quite good because of juries and 7th place :o :o :o :o :o

::uk United Kingdom - underrated with juries , expected one of last 2 places with televoting

::hu Hungary - expected

::dk Denmark - expected , but I must say again UNDERRATED with both juries and televote!!

::no Norway - He deserved that low places :evil: :lol: But expected last place with juries

::mt Malta - Who thought that Malta was saved with juries :o hhmm :? Underrated with televoting , overrated with juries :o

::fr France - I think this is the most shocking result this year !!!! 0 points with televoting ! Seriously :?: Ok, performance was messy and confusing , but imo underrated . Who thought that France will do so good with juries :o :o :o :o :o ( overrated imo )


SEMIFINAL 2

::lt Lithuania- Who thought that Lithuania was saved by televotes :o :? :?:

::no Norway- :evil: Last place with juries ! I'm so happy :D :D

::nl Netherlands - Stupid juries ! :o :( Netherlands would pass in the final if we look just televote :) I'm happy that at least people like that song :D

::mt Malta - Wow! Reversed results ! 5th with juries and 11th with televote :o

::by Belarus - Quite unexpectedly high with juries!

::pt Portugal - underrated with juries.

::hr Croatia - Oh! THANKS JURIES!!!! xkiss At least someone love our song :D Quite expected

::sk Slovakia - OMG !! This was unexpected ! Pretty high positions ( ok,no , but he achieved last place :lol: ) with both juries and televote !

::sl Slovenia - expected ( ofc , after I have seen results ) , but underrated , UNDERRATED , AND JUST UNDERRATED!

::ua Ukraine - What a shock !!!!!!! Can't believe ! 17th place with televoting ! 3rd place with juries !! Seriously :?: :?: Completely reversed results :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

::ge Georgia - Omg , reversed results ! What have juries seen in that song :?: :o But happy with last place with televoting , at least people know that this is one big crap( Sorry Georgian people :oops: )

All other is expected . This is the semifinal of reversed results ( in televoting and juries ) :o

SEMIFINAL 1

::ru Russia - 8th place with juries !! xcheer

::gr Greece - Who thought Greece will do better with juries !! :?: 3rd place :?: Seriously :?:

::cy Cyprus - again better with juries :o

::md Moldova - 2nd with juries !!! Reversed totally ! OVERRATED ( with juries )

::is Iceland - 11th with juries :o So underrated and unexpected :o

::at Austria - I never thought ( before Eurovision ) that Austria will do so bad with televoting.

All other is ( more,less ) quite expected.




TOP 5 MOST SHOCKING RESULTS ( imo ! )

1. ::fr France - 0 points with televoting , and 12th place with juries(completely reversed)
2. ::ua Ukraine - 7th place with juries in Final and 3rd place in Semifinal , and so so so bad with televoting
3. ::md Moldova - 9th place with juries in Final and 2nd place in Semifinal
4. ::it Italy doing so bad with televoting
5. ::cy Cyprus doing better with juries than the televoting
6. ::gr Greece 3rd with juries in Semifinal
7. ::ge Georgia - doing so well with juries and so bad with televoting
8. ::is Iceland doing so bad with juries
9. ::sk Slovakia's "high" places with both juries and televote
10. ::lt Lithuania and ::al Albania doing so well with televoting



So this was another one year with shocking split results ! :)

Sorry for so long post,but I had to write all this :D

Jukica
18th June 2012, 18:23
^ Agree :D

Anastasia15
18th June 2012, 18:25
I think Turkey and Romania were very underrated with the juries.
I'm glad the juries helped Italy getting into the Top 10, though, I thought Italy would've been higher in the televoting.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 18:26
How did the juries rank Romania's entry higher when it was #7 in televotes and #20 with juries?

Yes, Romania should be excluded of those. I included it because the bunch of folks I was refering to talked and complained about exactly these 3 (Cyprus, Greece, Romania) being probably ranked lower by the juries.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 18:31
I still don't understand why was Belgium so low in both...

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:33
Yes, Romania should be excluded of those. I included it because the bunch of folks I was refering to talked and complained about exactly these 3 (Cyprus, Greece, Romania) being probably ranked lower by the juries.

Well, Greece is a shock at the jury support tbh, it kinda proves how out of touch they are because it was probably one of the most generic of the up-tempo songs... however I think both Cyprus, and especially Romania, were criminally underrated by juries. I mean it's not as if the juries ranked Cyprus much higher than the public anyways? Just a couple of positions differ.

rajo
18th June 2012, 18:34
I think we have to stop being mad at either televoting or juries. When there are 26 songs and only 10 sets of points to give, you cannot reward every song as it should be appraised. Only the very best survive this competition and there will always be very good songs at the bottom and mediocre songs up high, because voting is also flawed as we know. If a song is in tenth place in each country's vote, it has a good chance to end up at the bottom. And if another song receives a couple of high points, it ends up with a decent score and place.

And you can be the overall winner by receiving mediocre points from each country. Eurovision is just the aggregation of taste.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:34
I still don't understand why was Belgium so low in both...

Really? I'm actually surprised it ended up so high, but glad the juries didn't favor it (I was afraid they would). It was a snoosefest, very uninspired song.

Matt
18th June 2012, 18:35
The splits resultz are so bizarre. But it just shows that the 50/50 televote vs jury is the best solution so far.

If I remember correctly, Hungary was the only country that didn't make the televoters Top 10. But considering they were 11th, that's still a pretty good outcome. And considering that Hungary (to me) is far superior to Switzerland I can't complain :D But shame on the televoters for putting Israel in 16th place, it would have qualified otherwise.

Semi 2 was way too messy. The biggest surprise was Ukraine that got killed by the televote and suprisingly put high in the jury's ranking. This proves one thing though. It doesn't matter that countries like Ukraine have a 100% qualification quota, any song/country can tank, so hopefully the whining about "Country A always qualifies, no matter what they send, not fair". And I love that the juries put Norway in last place, too bad it wasn't enough, it sure was (along with Montenegro) the weakest song of this year. Jury's love for Georgia is strange and I certainly don't agree with that. But I'm glad they stopped Bulgaria's horrendous song from advancing. Big mess overall but the results evened things out. Although I'm not very happy that the juries killed the Dutch odds :(

And I knew that Russia almost won the whole thing. Anybody complaining about jury's involvement, think again. Could you imagine that song winning? That would have been horrible. Overall I prefer the juries Top 10 but I don't get why Ukraine was that high up. And Ireland and Greece would have been Top 10 if it was to the televoters....Shocker (not). So it's the mix that really helps and I'm very satisfied with the overall outcome.

MyHeartIsYours
18th June 2012, 18:37
Not impressed with the Juries in the slightest, for the second year running!

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 18:38
Really? I'm actually surprised it ended up so high, but glad the juries didn't favor it (I was afraid they would). It was a snoosefest, very uninspired song.

If I remember correctly, the Irish jury gave Belgium 12 points. In my opinion, it was the best song of this contest, after The Netherlands.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:40
If I remember correctly, the Irish jury gave Belgium 12 points. In my opinion, it was the best song of this contest, after The Netherlands.

Hmm... well taste differ ;)

Netherlands though was tragically underrated by the tasteless juries.

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 18:43
Hmm... well taste differ ;)

Netherlands though was tragically underrated by the tasteless juries.

Criminally underrated :( Poor Joan ! She deserved to pass in final

Jukica
18th June 2012, 18:45
Agree for Netherlands, Joan deserved to qualify :(

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:45
Criminally underrated :( Poor Joan ! She deserved to pass in final

Yep, and so did Nina... although I can understand maybe if that song didn't have such mass-appeal.

Matt
18th June 2012, 18:46
Hmm... well taste differ ;)

Netherlands though was tragically underrated by the tasteless juries.

No offense but it's apparent that you'd criticizedthe jury no matter what. Considering they pretty much saved Sweden from losing this thing putting the joke entry from Russia way lower than the televoters, they deserve credit just for that. It seems that the fact they didn't support Romania didn't sit well with you. But that shouldn't come as too big of a surprise considering they butchered the jury performance.

I said it before, neither the televote or the jury vote alone are completely fair but the combination makes the difference.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:51
No offense but it's apparent that you'd criticizedthe jury no matter what. Considering they pretty much saved Sweden from losing this thing putting the joke entry from Russia way lower than the televoters, they deserve credit just for that. It seems that the fact they didn't support Romania didn't sit well with you. But that shouldn't come as too big of a surprise considering they butchered the jury performance.

I said it before, neither the televote or the jury vote alone are completely fair but the combination makes the difference.

I don't know about Romania's jury performance, I don't follow any of those to be honest as they spoil the excitement. I just read some comments about some of them and that's it.

But Sweden still won the televoting right?

Why am I complaining about juries? Because they are supposed to be the "experts" and since these small groups have equal power as million voters, I think we should expect some "expertise" then and not top. 10's for such obvious craps as Georgia. If they are going to have so much say, I think it's my democratic right to speak up when I think they acted wrongly then.

I mean aren't the juries put here for the reason to have some sort of musical knowledge?

Jukica
18th June 2012, 18:54
I don't know about Romania's jury performance, I don't follow any of those to be honest as they spoil the excitement. I just read some comments about some of them and that's it.

But Sweden still won the televoting right?

Why am I complaining about juries? Because they are supposed to be the "experts" and since these small groups have equal power as million voters, I think we should expect some "expertise" then and not top. 10's for such obvious craps as Georgia. If they are going to have so much say, I think it's my democratic right to speak up when I think they acted wrongly then.

I mean aren't the juries put here for the reason to have some sort of musical knowledge?
I'm not 100% sure now, but I think that some people from jury weren't music experts (e.g. Croatia had a meteorologist in the jury :lol:)

A-lister
18th June 2012, 18:57
I'm not 100% sure now, but I think that some people from jury weren't music experts (e.g. Croatia had a meteorologist in the jury :lol:)

Well, on paper they're suppose to be some sort of "musical geniuses" or whatever..

But yeah, you just proved their incompetence.

I think if these groups should have 50% of the total say, just as much as the million voters, then they should also prove that they can differ good songs from bad songs atleast.

They just seem to be occupied by judging vocals, but then why are we even having original songs in the first place if they can sound like cr*p but still get jury love?

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 19:02
I wanna kill the jury, what do you mean Moldova 2nd in SF1?

Moldova was great :p

aletem
18th June 2012, 19:02
I like the televoting results better. And should have the jury supported Kaliopi and place her in the top10, she would have ended up in the top10 overall. And some of the other results, like Moldova in the juries top10, Georgia in the top10 in the semi. WTH!?? Netherlands would have qualified.

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:04
I don't know about Romania's jury performance, I don't follow any of those to be honest as they spoil the excitement. I just read some comments about some of them and that's it.

But Sweden still won the televoting right?

Why am I complaining about juries? Because they are supposed to be the "experts" and since these small groups have equal power as million voters, I think we should expect some "expertise" then and not top. 10's for such obvious craps as Georgia. If they are going to have so much say, I think it's my democratic right to speak up when I think they acted wrongly then.

I mean aren't the juries put here for the reason to have some sort of musical knowledge?

Well, The lead singer stopped singing/forgot the lyrics (not sure what happened) for a moment which is obviously the worst thing that could happen during a live performance.

Looking at the votes I can't see your point about them not applying their "musical expertise". There was a healthy mix between ballads & upbeat songs in the Top 10. Of course with some songs it comes down to personal preference but we can't hold a jury accountable for that.

Nike
18th June 2012, 19:04
No offense but it's apparent that you'd criticizedthe jury no matter what. Considering they pretty much saved Sweden from losing this thing putting the joke entry from Russia way lower than the televoters, they deserve credit just for that. It seems that the fact they didn't support Romania didn't sit well with you. But that shouldn't come as too big of a surprise considering they butchered the jury performance.

I said it before, neither the televote or the jury vote alone are completely fair but the combination makes the difference.

How did the juries saved Sweden from losing? Sweden still should have won since we won the televoting.

moop
18th June 2012, 19:05
the jury got most of it right. they placed russia in a fair position and they called out the bottom 3 perfectly like well when i come to think about it, i wouldent have a problem if jedward came in last

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:05
It should be obligatory that every jury member is/was in the professional music industry.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 19:09
Did anyone see that Greece was 3rd in jury and 5th in televotes in semi? :o I first thought that they've mixed up the columns :lol:

Despite not liking the Greek entry, SF1 was so bad that it actually sounded good to me then :lol:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:10
Well, The lead singer stopped singing/forgot the lyrics (not sure what happened) for a moment which is obviously the worst thing that could happen during a live performance.

Looking at the votes I can't see your point about them not applying their "musical expertise". There was a healthy mix between ballads & upbeat songs in the Top 10. Of course with some songs it comes down to personal preference but we can't hold a jury accountable for that.

Expertise is not just about mixing different genres, I mean anyone could do that. Also, there shouldn't be a mix just for the sake of mix, if a song is good it is good regardless of the genre.

I think, as with all "authorities", since they have equal power as millions of people, we would should hold them accountable for their decisions. We already know that the public vote can be fickle with diaspora voting and such, and that some might be attracted to vote for "jokes" just for the fun of it... but one should expect juries to actually have some musical insight.

Georgia qualifying? I mean that alone is enough for me to find them laughable. I mean even the public had so much taste to put that mess in the end. This also sort of makes my prejudices about juries only caring about vocals true. I mean look at Ukraine? It was over-wailed to such an extent that you could hardly hear the original melody in there.

Again, I think we should be more critical of juries simply because they are put here as some sort of expertise.

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:10
How did the juries saved Sweden from losing? Sweden still should have won since we won the televoting.

If the juries would have put Russia ahead of Sweden we would have had a different winner. And just the fact that Sweden almost lost the televote in general should be alarming to begin with.

moop
18th June 2012, 19:11
Surprised the public showed more love to the UK than the juries actually...

and yeah, the juries also did a correct job with Ireland (as they did with Turkey).

Other than that I'm not really sure what I think.

agreed the only thing they got really wrong was albania. like i dont even know how that screaming banshee made it 2 the final

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:11
It should be obligatory that every jury member is/was in the professional music industry.

Agree. They should be professionals in the field, music programmers for radio stations and such.

I mean in some countries it seems they put some random celebrity in the juries. Also, again the focus should be primary on songs, I mean don't they know what they sign up for?

moop
18th June 2012, 19:15
Oh so this IS European Idol? I didn't know... last time I checked it was Eurovision SONG Contest.

The fact that the juries put that MESS of a song the Georgian entry was in the top. 10, but totally screwed Netherlands and also Bulgaria over, imo proves how infantile they are. They simply ONLY judge live vocals... they couldn't even be bothered if the songs can't even be considered songs or if the singers slaughter ok songs with over-singing (Ukraine and Estonia I look at you!).

tbh netherlands super annoying english totally put me off that song and when you talk about over singing, u should put albania and lithuania in that category

Nike
18th June 2012, 19:15
If the juries would have put Russia ahead of Sweden we would have had a different winner. And just the fact that Sweden almost lost the televote in general should be alarming to begin with.

Or you could say that the televoters saved Russia's 2nd place? Or else they should have done much worse...? Why is it always the juries who always saves any entry?

The thing is that both the Juries and the televoters agreed with Sweden as the winner. Not much to argue against that really.

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:16
Expertise is not just about mixing different genres, I mean anyone could do that. Also, there shouldn't be a mix just for the sake of mix, if a song is good it is good regardless of the genre.

I think, as with all "authorities", since they have equal power as millions of people, we would should hold them accountable for their decisions. We already know that the public vote can be fickle with diaspora voting and such, and that some might be attracted to vote for "jokes" just for the fun of it... but one should expect juries to actually have some musical insight.

Georgia qualifying? I mean that alone is enough for me to find them laughable. I mean even the public had so much taste to put that mess in the end. This also sort of makes my prejudices about juries only caring about vocals true. I mean look at Ukraine? It was over-wailed to such an extent that you could hardly hear the original melody in there.

Again, I think we should be more critical of juries simply because they are put here as some sort of expertise.

But you questing the juries based on your personal taste. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't get how the juries placed Cyprus higher and the televoters considering it's a pretty bad song to me but I'm not comparing my taste with the juries and yell "injustice". You question their expertise saying they vote for crappy songs but that's according to YOU and while I'm certain that some share your views on some of the songs (we all do), it doesn't represent everyone. When I look at the jury results I find them quite accurate and reasonable.

So I understand if you say "The juries taste suck, I don't agree with them at all" but saying they don't know what they're doing and they're s..t cause of Georgia's entry seems too much.

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:16
It should be obligatory that every jury member is/was in the professional music industry.

It is already obligatory.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:17
Or you could say that the televoters saved Russia's 2nd place? Or else they should have done much worse...? Why is it always the juries who always saves any entry?

The thing is that both the Juries and the televoters agreed with Sweden as the winner. Not much to argue against that really.

Agree. Funny how juries are always seen as "saviors". Televoters barely gets credited for anything. In this case, both televoters and juries chose Sweden as their #1.

On the other hand, televoters "saved" Netherlands, while juries preferred Georgia...

Franco
18th June 2012, 19:18
Very disappointing results. Problem is: what to do when both juries and televote fail? Maybe next year we should rely on random assigned points. :lol:

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:19
Or you could say that the televoters saved Russia's 2nd place? Or else they should have done much worse...? Why is it always the juries who always saves any entry?

The thing is that both the Juries and the televoters agreed with Sweden as the winner. Not much to argue against that really.

I don't believe you read my entire comment. I've been saying the entire time that I'm incredibly happy with the mixed results. I was making a point towards Alister who was bashing the juries and I simply was pointing out that the televoters almost ruined Sweden's victory which would have been a disaster.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:19
But you questing the juries based on your personal taste. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't get how the juries placed Cyprus higher and the televoters considering it's a pretty bad song to me but I'm not comparing my taste with the juries and yell "injustice". You question their expertise saying they vote for crappy songs but that's according to YOU and while I'm certain that some share your views on some of the songs (we all do), it doesn't represent everyone. When I look at the jury results I find them quite accurate and reasonable.

So I understand if you say "The juries taste suck, I don't agree with them at all" but saying they don't know what they're doing and they're s..t cause of Georgia's entry seems too much.

I don't think I speak only for myself in regarding to that mess Georgia's entry was... if it was isolated to my taste, how did it end up last with the televoters? I can't recall it being popular anywhere (certainly not around here either)... but the juries must have found something 'good' in it... whatever that might have been.

Of course I speak on behalf of my taste aswell, everyone here does. I already explained why I agree with the juries treating of the Turkish entry, which is based on my personal taste.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:21
I mean look at Ukraine? It was over-wailed to such an extent that you could hardly hear the original melody in there.


I remember reading a story somewhere about why Turkey 1983 received nul points. It was written that the juries didn't like the fact that they sung the word "opera" and names of composers during most of the song. Ukraine had the same thing, it was just "you can be my gueeeeeeeeeeeeeest!" and some not really intelligible words in-between.

moop
18th June 2012, 19:21
yeah but in that semi, Lithuania was 10th by juries and IMO, Donny sang very well, better than Anri. in fact, he saved that song.

lithuania should be banned form the eurovision for like 10 years for sending that song to the eurovision. come to think of it, jebward engelbert and towlie from norway was just bad, but donny was an insult to music and the people enjoying it

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:23
lithuania should be banned form the eurovision for like 10 years for sending that song to the eurovision. come to think of it, jebward engelbert and towlie from norway was just bad, but donny was an insult to music and the people enjoying it

:lol:

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:23
I don't think I speak only for myself in regarding to that mess Georgia's entry was... if it was isolated to my taste, how did it end up last with the televoters? I can't recall it being popular anywhere (certainly not around here either)... but the juries must have found something 'good' in it... whatever that might have been.

Of course I speak on behalf of my taste aswell, everyone here does. I already explained why I agree with the juries treating of the Turkish entry, which is based on my personal taste.


And I happen to agree with you that Georgia's entry was crap and so don't get why it scored so high with them. The point is, taking one song out of the whole voting procedure is taking things out of context and doesn't represent the full picture. And this is just a perfect example why we shouldn't have 100% jury vote or televote.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 19:24
22nd in jury vote? oh really?

Yeah, it's a shame televoters voted it so high :D


which makes me sick. seeing Albania's 3rd place, I just want to die

So much overreacting here :lol:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:25
And I happen to agree with you that Georgia's entry was crap and so don't get why it scored so high with them. The point is, taking one song out of the whole voting procedure is taking things out of context and doesn't represent the full picture. And this is just a perfect example why we shouldn't have 100% jury vote or televote.

But that song was such an extreme case of crap that it works as an example :lol:

And our poor Joan was killed by the juries in favor of that 'music'... I'm sad :oops:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:26
Yeah, it's a shame televoters voted it so high :D


Agree ;)

Mozz
18th June 2012, 19:27
Well, for what it's worth, I as a Dutchman can see and understand why a random juror would place Georgia higher than our own entry.

And it has not much to do with the song itself.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:29
It is already obligatory.

But they should be like singers, composers, lyricists and not Idol judges or random actors/porn stars/other celebrities.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:29
Well, for what it's worth, I as a Dutchman can see and understand why a random juror would place Georgia higher than our own entry.

So... why would a random juror prefer Georgia to Netherlands?

evilperson
18th June 2012, 19:30
I can't really see how the juries justified giving a horrendous singer-song-act combo, brought to us on the behalf of France, 85 points.
But thank god they killed off Ireland.

Surprised to see Ukraine being a big televote loser, especially in the semi-final.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:31
Well, for what it's worth, I as a Dutchman can see and understand why a random juror would place Georgia higher than our own entry.

And it has not much to do with the song itself.

I don't see it sorry, as the Georgian song was just noise.

Also it wasn't randomly, a country can't end up that high with just some random votes.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 19:32
So... why would a random juror prefer Georgia to Netherlands?

The act, the stage performance, the energy.

Some people may be constantly hammering on the fact that this is a song contest, but that's simply not how it in reality works.

For clarity: Georgia's entry is in my bottom 5 this year. I dislike it.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:33
The act, the stage performance, the energy.

Some people may be constantly hammering on the fact that this is a song contest, but that's simply not how it in reality works.

So... making a fool out of yourself gets you points nowadays?

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:33
The act, the stage performance, the energy.

Some people may be constantly hammering on the fact that this is a song contest, but that's simply not how it in reality works.

Apparently not... if someone can send 3 minutes of utter crap and get away with it because of the act (which was crap aswell), then the current system really doesn't work for sure.

moop
18th June 2012, 19:34
These results are simply bizarre :s

not englands and irlands, they were spot on when it comes to them

WorldSong
18th June 2012, 19:34
tbh, I can't understand why juries supported ::ua so eagerly.
(no offense to Ukrainian members here, just commenting on the song :mrgreen:)

Agreed. I liked the performance, but I wasn't overly keen on her vocals

Mozz
18th June 2012, 19:35
So... making a fool out of yourself gets you points nowadays?

Yes, maybe, especially if paired with some eccentrism, vocal acrobatics etc.. Presenting an energetic act if the song itself is horrible sometimes works magic. I'm just trying to get a grip on how jury members watch Eurovision.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:35
So... making a fool out of yourself gets you points nowadays?

Seems so... and it's laughable that people say that juries brought some 'class' into the voting... the type of entry they rewarded was really one of the worst of the past decade... it makes "We are the winners" and those Latvian pirates look like masterpieces.

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:37
BTW, is there like a full table of votes so we can see who gave points to who?

Mozz
18th June 2012, 19:39
But these are all assumptions. We can only now the truth if these jury members are interviewed.

There should also be a survey of the average Eurovision voter. Only then we can get a hold of why for example there's such a discrepancy between the jury votes for Ukrains entry and the televoters opinion on Ukrains entry.

^^ But of course this all will never happen and will remain just ideas.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:39
BTW, is there like a full table of votes so we can see who gave points to who?

EBU seem not to be big fans of transparency, I can't recall they ever revealed the split votes for each country... it seems to be up to the national broadcasters to reveal it themselves if they want to.

I might be wrong however.

Jukica
18th June 2012, 19:42
They didn't post full split votes the last year as well, so I don't think that they will post this year :(

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:43
EBU seem not to be big fans of transparency, I can't recall they ever revealed the split votes for each country... it seems to be up to the national broadcasters to reveal it themselves if they want to.

I might be wrong however.

They did reveal the full voting scores by country in 2009 but not since that day.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:47
They did reveal the full voting scores by country in 2009 but not since that day.

Ok... yeah cause I can't recall anything really.

I don't really like this behavior tbh, I prefer transparency.

AlekS
18th June 2012, 19:49
I've been always saying that we don't really benefit on blind voting, rather people liking our entries. Blind voting exists in ESC of course but it's no so big/dramatic like some of us think.

Not gonna fall to subjective cra... stuff and say "zomg! These particular entries deserved to finish higher" (lol)
After talking to 1 person from our jury and hearing what 1 ESC participant said few weeks ago I will never spend any single euro-cent on this "voting". I feel sorry for some delegations who had to spend money on participation fee and expected something.

Personally I watch it only because of performances.

Matt
18th June 2012, 19:51
After talking to 1 person from our jury and hearing what 1 ESC participant said few weeks ago I will never spend any single euro-cent on this "voting". I feel sorry for some delegations who had to spend money on this contest.

??? I'm curious!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean
18th June 2012, 19:52
I'm surprised at the jury ranking of Georgia but it was an incredible performance - it turned around lots of people's opinions of the song. I'm more surprised at the jury rankings of Montenegro and San Marino!

A-lister
18th June 2012, 19:54
I'm surprised at the jury ranking of Georgia but it was an incredible performance - it turned around lots of people's opinions of the song. I'm more surprised at the jury rankings of Montenegro and San Marino!

Yeah, it turned so many people around it ended up dead last in its semi :lol:

Sorry, but there's no excuse for so called musical experts even rewarding that mess any point at all. It makes me scared that they only reward vocals but couldn't care less about the songs.

Bad performances shouldn't be rewarded, but why should bad songs?

AlekS
18th June 2012, 19:57
??? I'm curious!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll PM you ;)
Not interested in sharing my opinions in this thread because I've already did that until the contest )))

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:57
I've been always saying that we don't really benefit on blind voting, rather people liking our entries. Blind voting exists in ESC of course but it's no so big/dramatic like some of us think.

Not gonna fall to subjective cra... stuff and say "zomg! These particular entries deserved to finish higher" (lol)
After talking to 1 person from our jury and hearing what 1 ESC participant said few weeks ago I will never spend any single euro-cent on this "voting". I feel sorry for some delegations who had to spend money on participation fee and expected something.

Personally I watch it only because of performances.

So... what did this jury member and ESC participant say?

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 19:57
I'll PM you ;)
Not interested in sharing my opinions in this thread because I've already did that until the contest )))

Could you PM me to? ;)

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 19:58
The act, the stage performance, the energy.

Some people may be constantly hammering on the fact that this is a song contest, but that's simply not how it in reality works.

For clarity: Georgia's entry is in my bottom 5 this year. I dislike it.

Exactly. It may seem weird and not how people like it but people are voting on more than one thing. Dare I say the strange stage performance of Sweden helped it win and become such a favourite because without it, it's a club song we have heard a million times before. Im pretty sure Loreen's unusual performance helped her get the win and votes. People like things that stick out. As rubbish as "I'm A Joker" is, it was one of the most entertaining performances of the night. It was my mothers favourite quite bizarrely as well.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:00
Exactly. It may seem weird and not how people like it but people are voting on more than one thing. Dare I say the strange stage performance of Sweden helped it win and become such a favourite because without it, it's a club song we have heard a million times before. Im pretty sure Loreen's unusual performance helped her get the win and votes. People like things that stick out. As rubbish as "I'm A Joker" is, it was one of the most entertaining performances of the night. It was my mothers favourite quite bizarrely as well.

Again, what people? It ended up last!

There's nothing wrong with originality, but the song was awful on every aspect objectively speaking.

rajo
18th June 2012, 20:03
??? I'm curious!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Me too..... :oops:

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:05
Again, what people? It ended up last!

There's nothing wrong with originality, but the song was awful on every aspect objectively speaking.

Jury people.. maybe in the hall it was easier for them to get caught up in it. Maybe they were drugged. I just think it's a massive troll song and Anri knows this as well:lol:

Of course.. if we were to be really dark and dodgy, we could suggest that juries voted for Anri so as to give their own countries more of a chance:o

Matt
18th June 2012, 20:05
Exactly. It may seem weird and not how people like it but people are voting on more than one thing. Dare I say the strange stage performance of Sweden helped it win and become such a favourite because without it, it's a club song we have heard a million times before. Im pretty sure Loreen's unusual performance helped her get the win and votes. People like things that stick out. As rubbish as "I'm A Joker" is, it was one of the most entertaining performances of the night. It was my mothers favourite quite bizarrely as well.

I watched the show with 2 non ESC fans and both of them liked Georgia. I was like "WTF???".

The live performance is incredibly important and essential in coming up with a ranking. Otherwise why not do playback or have it on the radio? The live aspect is what makes the show.

And one thing we forget is that juries vote for a Top 10 while televoters only vote for their favorite. We're comaring apples and oranges here.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:10
I watched the show with 2 non ESC fans and both of them liked Georgia. I was like "WTF???".

The live performance is incredibly important and essential in coming up with a ranking. Otherwise why not do playback or have it on the radio? The live aspect is what makes the show.

And one thing we forget is that juries vote for a Top 10 while televoters only vote for their favorite. We're comaring apples and oranges here.

Still though, it ended up last with viewers so hardly universally liked.

Also, if this is so, we should re-name this "Eurovision Singing/Performance Contest"... it's funny how good songs are being trashed to bits if their performances may not live up to its potential, but bad songs gets hailed if they just have a singer that can sing....

Anyways, I thought the performance was just as messy as the song, but maybe I'm just blind and deaf :lol:

r3gg13
18th June 2012, 20:13
Pretty much everyone and their mothers are interested in what the jury member told AlekS :mrgreen:

I for one, loved Georgia's performance. That was the most entertaining performance of the night. It was over-the-top in a good way + Anri sounded really good, IMO :)

What surprised me was how high the viewers ranked Lithuania in SF. My parents and my sister loved it too when they saw it on the final.

Matt
18th June 2012, 20:15
Still though, it ended up last with viewers so hardly universally liked.

Also, if this is so, we should re-name this "Eurovision Singing/Performance Contest"... it's funny how good songs are being trashed to bits if their performances may not live up to its potential, but bad songs gets hailed if they just have a singer that can sing....

Anyways, I thought the performance was just as messy as the song, but maybe I'm just blind and deaf :lol:

Just because the word "Song" happens to be in the name of the contest doesn't mean that's all there is to it. It always has been about the whole package and IMO should be that way.

But as I just pointed out, if televoters also would vote for their Top 10 instead of only their favorite song Georgia would have been probably higher in the ranking as it's just not a "most popular" kinda song.

rajo
18th June 2012, 20:15
This result still doesn't take away suspicion for blind voting from these countries: Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Greece, Romania. Same story every year.

As for Russia and Serbia, the blind voting effect is concealed by a stronger-than-usual song. Russia had a massive overall appeal. But I think it is still there. At least the 2011 televoting figures prove that.

Austria is still on the record for having the biggest gap in terms of placing: 5th with juries, 24th with televoting last year. Russia has now the biggest gap in points between both.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:17
I watched the show with 2 non ESC fans and both of them liked Georgia. I was like "WTF???".

The live performance is incredibly important and essential in coming up with a ranking. Otherwise why not do playback or have it on the radio? The live aspect is what makes the show.

And one thing we forget is that juries vote for a Top 10 while televoters only vote for their favorite. We're comaring apples and oranges here.

I think it's very true what you say Matt. The same thing really applied for Rona this year. I think seeing her perform it live changed alot of opinions. For lots of people being entertained by a dazzling stage show will make them vote or reward points as well.

Also like you say, we the public vote our favourite(s). The jury vote their top 10.

I'd rather vote for that crazy, rubbish song that ive never seen anything like before, that made me laugh than songs I find just uninspired and boring despite people saying "well it's a better song". I know I would have thrown a point Georgia's way most likely if I was jury member this year and I wouldnt have cared if people thought me stupid for it.

Mozz
18th June 2012, 20:19
I know I would have thrown a point Georgia's way most likely if I was jury member this year and I wouldnt have cared if people thought me stupid for it.

Are you sure? Some people could kill you for that, so it seems :lol:

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:24
Still though, it ended up last with viewers so hardly universally liked.

Also, if this is so, we should re-name this "Eurovision Singing/Performance Contest"... it's funny how good songs are being trashed to bits if their performances may not live up to its potential, but bad songs gets hailed if they just have a singer that can sing....

Anyways, I thought the performance was just as messy as the song, but maybe I'm just blind and deaf :lol:

I know what you mean. The jury loving Austria last year was really annoying. They do tend to favour vocal displays. I found Spains song this year to be a totally cliché, ballad by numbers effort. Although of course incredibly well sung but I don't think it deserved the high placing from the jury. Thats the one thing I really don't like about the jury. They do like their well sung, cliché ballads.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:25
Just because the word "Song" happens to be in the name of the contest doesn't mean that's all there is to it. It always has been about the whole package and IMO should be that way.

But as I just pointed out, if televoters also would vote for their Top 10 instead of only their favorite song Georgia would have been probably higher in the ranking as it's just not a "most popular" kinda song.

But doesn't "song" belong to that package then? And well, yeah performances and vocals, but if the songs aren't important then I still think the name can be changed. We could make it convenient and turn it into kareoke while we're at it, then there's no need for national selections and such...

That's speculating, obviously the majority found it crappy because it ended last.

rajo
18th June 2012, 20:25
The jury loving Austria last year was really annoying. They do tend to favour vocal displays.

xcry

Nadine nailed it, and she wrote the song on her own....

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:27
I know what you mean. The jury loving Austria last year was really annoying. They do tend to favour vocal displays. I found Spains song this year to be a totally cliché, ballad by numbers effort. Although of course incredibly well sung but I don't think it deserved the high placing from the jury. Thats the one thing I really don't like about the jury. They do like their well sung, cliché ballads.

Exactly, and this is a major dilemma and problem for ESC... do we REALLY need another Idol concept? I mean can't we just have Eurovision without those damn vocal juries? We already have Idol, X-Factor, The Voice and plenty more... it's like that infects everything nowadays.

I'm not saying vocals are unimportant, but it shouldn't be the most important aspect.

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:28
Are you sure? Some people could kill you for that, so it seems :lol:

They could try to kill me but i'd get Valentina to beat them up. She wouldn't let any harm happen to fans of her fellow troll, Anrixrofl2

CC92
18th June 2012, 20:28
I was one of the few people that enjoyed the Georgian entry (5th place on my list) but Europe obviously disagreed and a last place honestly proves that. All I fairly can do is deal with it instead of applauding the jury for disrespecting people's decision. What is interesting to notice, by the way, is that the bottom two in SF2 consists of two of the most successful Ex-Soviet countries in previous years. You cannot even blame their failures on an unfavourable allocation draw because they had not one. So much for political voting and certain points.:lol: In the end ESC is a show produced for the viewers so they should decide regardless of what you personally might think.
It is the first year in which I do not hate the overall 'jury' scores but I hate (really hate) to come to know to the results three weeks after the actual event. Whose opinion does the 'combined ranking' reflect? Exactly, no one's. I could not care less about it even if I agreed on every single position. That would be selfish thinking imho.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:29
xcry

Nadine nailed it, and she wrote the song on her own....

Doesn't make the song any better though I'm sorry :lol:

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 20:29
And one thing we forget is that juries vote for a Top 10 while televoters only vote for their favorite. We're comaring apples and oranges here.

Because of that, I think that juries' votes are more reliable.And because of that ( one example ) Georgia failed imo.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:30
I was one of the few people that enjoyed the Georgian entry (5th place on my list) but Europe obviously disagreed and a last place honestly proves that. All I fairly can do is deal with it instead of applauding the jury for disrespecting people's decision. What is interesting to notice, by the way, is that the bottom two in SF2 consists of two of the most successful Ex-Soviet countries in previous years. You cannot even blame their failures on an unfavourable allocation draw because they had not one. So much for political voting and certain points.:lol: In the end ESC is a show produced for the viewers so they should decide regardless of what you personally might think.
It is the first year in which I do not hate the overall 'jury' scores but I hate (really hate) to come to know to the results three weeks after the actual event. Whose opinion does the 'combined ranking' reflect? Exactly, no one's. I could not care less about it even if I agreed on every single position. That would be selfish thinking imho.

Well said.

rajo
18th June 2012, 20:31
Doesn't make the song any better though I'm sorry :lol:


xgaah

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:31
Because of that, I think that juries' votes are more reliable.And because of that ( one example ) Georgia failed imo.

Georgia failed because it was crap. I can't believe what a 180 degree turn this forum made to make excuses for the juries bad taste :lol: Georgia was never really liked anywhere. Yes of course, there will always be some that like every song, but in general.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:32
xgaah

But Trackshittaz deserved to qualify though 8-)

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 20:33
It annoys me too , when juries look just voice . They heard Rona and just said " WOOOOOWWW ,what a voice " and what about song :?: Isn't this Eurovision Song Contest :?: Ok,I agree that they can look voice but just like one part of song( or something like that :lol: ) . Imo , I think that juries also have to look writers of the song(just a little),because it's better(imo) when singer writes song on his/her own. :D

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 20:35
Georgia failed because it was crap. I can't believe what a 180 degree turn this forum made to make excuses for the juries bad taste :lol: Georgia was never really liked anywhere. Yes of course, there will always be some that like every song, but in general.

No speech of that , that I'm really pleased with Georgia's last place in televoting.

I think that juries loved Georgian entry because Anri's vocal performance was very good and strong :?

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:35
Exactly, and this is a major dilemma and problem for ESC... do we REALLY need another Idol concept? I mean can't we just have Eurovision without those damn vocal juries? We already have Idol, X-Factor, The Voice and plenty more... it's like that infects everything nowadays.

I'm not saying vocals are unimportant, but it shouldn't be the most important aspect.

I know, I don't like it and I hate Idol, Voice programmes/concepts with a burning passion inside of me. Theres more to music than being able to belt out a ballad. I like the look of the top 26 though this year with the combined Public/Jury vote more so than either Public or Jury seperately.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:36
It annoys me too , when juries look just voice . They heard Rona and just said " WOOOOOWWW ,what a voice " and what about song :?: Isn't this Eurovision Song Contest :?: Ok,I agree that they can look voice but just like one part of song( or something like that :lol: ) . Imo , I think that juries also have to look writers of the song(just a little),because it's better(imo) when singer writes song on his/her own. :D

Agree...

but as much as I prefer artistry, if someone writes a bad song on their own, it shouldn't be rewarded simply for being self-written... just like a bad song shouldn't be rewarded just because of good vocals.

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:39
I know, I don't like it and I hate Idol, Voice programmes/concepts with a burning passion inside of me. Theres more to music than being able to belt out a ballad.

Agree! I'm afraid though, that in Rona's case they didn't actually award the originality of the song, but only her vocal abilities :/

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:40
xcry

Nadine nailed it, and she wrote the song on her own....

Yeah she had a fantastic voice no doubt about it and fair play and well done to her for writing it. I just found it to be very dated in a not soo good way. If it's any consolation, I thought Trackshittaz really deserved the final this yearxcry

daniels1000
18th June 2012, 20:44
Agree...

but as much as I prefer artistry, if someone writes a bad song on their own, it shouldn't be rewarded simply for being self-written... just like a bad song shouldn't be rewarded just because of good vocals.

didn't say that but to sum up think that juries must look whole performance(vocals,performance etc.) but that song is main thing to look at:?:

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:47
didn't say that but to sum up think that juries must look whole performance(vocals,performance etc.) but that song is main thing to look at:?:

Agree with that, unfortunately we have proves every year now that songs aren't that much of importance for the juries and that they simply turn the blind eye to bad/uninspired songs as long as they are performed vocally strong...

RainyWoods
18th June 2012, 20:48
Agree! I'm afraid though, that in Rona's case they didn't actually award the originality of the song, but only her vocal abilities :/

That would really upset me if that were to be the case. I love Rona's song soo much, not because of the screaming. The first time I heard it way back in Decemeber I was captivated by Rona singing the melancholy verse, her voice and the unusual, dark places the melody would go. And then the chorus hits you in the face and it's incredible. I hope the jury appreciated the composition, the offbeat, experimental arrangement and vocal.. Rather than just going "My god shes screaming louder than Pastora, please take our points!"

A-lister
18th June 2012, 20:52
That would really upset me if that were to be the case. I love Rona's song soo much, not because of the screaming. The first time I heard it way back in Decemeber I was captivated by Rona singing the melancholy verse, her voice and the unusual, dark places the melody would go. And then the chorus hits you in the face and it's incredible. I hope the jury appreciated the composition, the offbeat, experimental arrangement and vocal.. Rather than just going "My god shes screaming louder than Pastora, please take our points!"

I agree, I have the same feeling about the song... I'm afraid though that it was rewarded in the more shallow "Oh god she can wail her pants off" fashion... :( Ofcourse it's just speculation, but considering how juries treated more original/left-field entries in the past, I'm afraid that's the case here :(

So it's bittersweet really.

blein
18th June 2012, 21:02
Ukraine/Moldova/Germany Over Grannies? I can understand Italy/Albania/Spain... but not this
Turkey 4th In televoting? HOW????????????????????????????????? IT WAS SO ANNOYING Song.
Well if Rules of voting would be as in 2000-2008, then Russia And Sweden would had a rough Fight.. it would be interesting(I remember Euro2003, last country decided the winner from 3 countries)
Anyways I am glad with overall results. 1.Sweden 2.Russia 3.Serbia (Perfect Year)

blein
18th June 2012, 21:05
18. Spain / 5. Spain
17. Italy / 4. Italy
Juries Saved those.. and i like that.

EurovisionSmile
18th June 2012, 21:07
Ukraine/Moldova/Germany Over Grannies? I can understand Italy/Albania/Spain... but not this
Turkey 4th In televoting? HOW????????????????????????????????? IT WAS SO ANNOYING Song.
Well if Rules of voting would be as in 2000-2008, then Russia And Sweden would had a rough Fight.. it would be interesting(I remember Euro2003, last country decided the winner from 3 countries)
Anyways I am glad with overall results. 1.Sweden 2.Russia 3.Serbia (Perfect Year)

Russia should have been last. Jury was actually very kind to that dreadful circus.

Jopi
18th June 2012, 21:22
Russia should have been last,yeah I agree.
Anyway the results are JUST HORRIBLE.
I like jury,because they saved Spain,Italy and Estonia:)
But OMG. The worst results in ESC history.

WorldSong
18th June 2012, 21:22
Russia should have been last. Jury was actually very kind to that dreadful circus.

At least they beat that Irish monstrosity... I think the Jury was overly kind to them also. :roll:

blein
18th June 2012, 21:23
Russia should have been last. Jury was actually very kind to that dreadful circus.

Televoters are viewers of this contest, and since it was 2nd , then it means it was popular. Best In semifinal 1 , and 2nd in in final, and i sended 1 sms for them and 3 for Loreen.
And for people that dont get, it was not a joke song. Babushki were inviting you to a Party that is for everybody.

WorldSong
18th June 2012, 21:29
Like that Australian commentator said- Buranovskiye Babushki should have sent a more serious entry instead of "party for everybody". I very much agree- as much as everyone liked it for it's 'adoreableness', it didn't appeal to everyone because it was too much of a joke.

blein
18th June 2012, 21:32
Well for me its better to send this , than Russia 2011 gay style song, i gonna get you <3

Jopi
18th June 2012, 21:36
Well for me its better to send this , than Russia 2011 gay style song, i gonna get you <3

Alexey was my fave last year. How many milllions times he was better than Russia 2012?

WorldSong
18th June 2012, 21:37
Well for me its better to send this , than Russia 2011 gay style song, i gonna get you <3

The last Russian entry was cringeworthy. I reckon Nalitch and Friends was the best Russian entry of recent years- him and Anastasiya Prikhodko

blein
18th June 2012, 21:39
Alexey was my fave last year. How many milllions times he was better than Russia 2012?

wont even comment that.

Matt
18th June 2012, 21:41
Well for me its better to send this , than Russia 2011 gay style song, i gonna get you <3


gay style??????????

AdelAdel
18th June 2012, 21:47
I really don't understand Denmark's position in this. It was a generic radio-type song. If it was a regular song, it probably would've been number one in the charts.

CypriotGirl
18th June 2012, 21:53
I was right about Romania & Greece being in top 10 of televoting and very low on juries. I can understand it about Greece, but Romania? Why? So unfair.

I was kinda shocked to see Cyprus higher in juries than in televoting, but I was prepared for it because from the results that were leaked, Cyprus was doing better in juries.

Thanks to juries for placing so low the absolute craps of Ireland, Turkey and Norway, but they couldn't do anything else for that crap of Turkey because it was 4th in televoting...

The biggest shock was France with 0 points in televoting! And Georgia being 8th in the juries in the SF? Seriously? What about Ukraine being jury's favorite? 3rd in juries & 17th in televoting?

Also, UK last in juries? :o

And Iceland not being in top 10 of juries in the SF, and qualifying with the votes of televoting!

Too bad for the Netherlands and Switzerland, being 10th in televoting and robbed by the juries! So unfair for these two countries... :(

Jopi
18th June 2012, 21:58
I think that,and most of the population:)

blein
18th June 2012, 22:54
Maat , disagree? It was my opinion. I loved the moment when 4 boys were running in circle and singing i am gonna get you.

Matt
18th June 2012, 22:58
Maat , disagree? It was my opinion. I loved the moment when 4 boys were running in circle and singing i am gonna get you.

No, I mean I didn't like that song but I guess we have a different interpretation of the choreography but I must say that made me laugh :D

FilipFromSweden
18th June 2012, 23:00
So what if it was gay? Because you know. Eurovision is soooo straight only ;)

Terence
18th June 2012, 23:35
My long-lasting reaction to all this is... how is Russia so high with juries???

A-lister
18th June 2012, 23:47
My long-lasting reaction to all this is... how is Russia so high with juries???

Well, I always called the juries 'grandmas', so it would be weird not to vote for your own kind right? :lol:

Anyways, I don't get the hate for the Russian entry. It's gimmicky yes, but not at all dreadful. It's a cute little gem, mix of folk and Verka Serduchka disco :lol:

Honestly though, I'm also surprised that they juries didn't put them even lower. Juries seem to be some really bitter party-killers, but somehow they enjoyed the grannies' party :mrgreen:

CC92
19th June 2012, 05:41
Why am I complaining about juries? Because they are supposed to be the "experts" and since these small groups have equal power as million voters, I think we should expect some "expertise" then and not top. 10's for such obvious craps as Georgia. If they are going to have so much say, I think it's my democratic right to speak up when I think they acted wrongly then.

I mean aren't the juries put here for the reason to have some sort of musical knowledge?

Agree, the good will for the jury is a big mystery to me. Televoters and the jury are not two equal sides: In fact, the former represents the opinion of millions (or of the continent you could say) whilst the latter is just the thinking of 200 (in semis 100) people which officially are deployed to add a professional view to the results. So if overall both know the same about 'quality'/musical standards or at least act the same (and obviously juries do not even out diaspora dis-/advantages in general), why should one give a small group so much power? I find this very abnormal and un-democratic. Honestly I am a bit sad so many support this authoritarian system or do not care as long as their favourites are not hurt too much.

Matt
19th June 2012, 06:07
Agree, the good will for the jury is a big mystery to me. Televoters and the jury are not two equal sides: In fact, the former represents the opinion of millions (or of the continent you could say) whilst the latter is just the thinking of 200 (in semis 100) people which officially are deployed to add a professional view to the results. So if overall both know the same about 'quality'/musical standards or at least act the same (and obviously juries do not even out diaspora dis-/advantages in general), why should one give a small group so much power? I find this very abnormal and un-democratic. Honestly I am a bit sad so many support this authoritarian system or do not care as long as their favourites are not hurt too much.

It has nothing to do with the favorites, my favorite this year were the Netherlands and we all know what happened to them by now.
I disagree with the Statement of yours in regards to both groups having the same expertise. I'm not downplaying the televoters music taste but viewers do not analyze the music the way professionals do. I understand that you don't agree with some of their decisions but as I pointed out before, we're comparing apples to oranges. The 100% televote did not work out in the past (at least according to the vast majority) and not counting some online fans here and there, the system is rather popular so I don't believe it's going to change anytime soon.

busybee
19th June 2012, 09:46
Well, seeing how the juries voted, I don't know what's the point in having them. Back in 2008, everyone (well, western fans mostly) screamed that juries are needed to stop the neighbour voting and the diaspora voting and look how unfortunate western countries are and they can never do well with televoting because everyone votes for his neighbour etc etc etc. And here we are, 4 years later, a western country having won the televoting in 2010, same western country (Germany) doing better with televoting than with juries, same happened last year (with the Uk), Netherlands is out of the final because of the juries, and Ukraine (one of the countries with the most neighbours) does way better with them than in televoting.
Well, excuse me, but what would be the difference if we only had televoting? That Greece would be 9th and Turkey 4th? Or is it because of France, Italy and Spain? Well, if people liked their songs, they would have voted for them (like they do for Germany or for the Uk last year).
I wonder when will people understand that televoting (with whatever neighbour and diaspora issues it has), is the most fair way of voting. 4th year now and the winner is the same winner as televote. The whole top 3 is exactly the same as televote. 7/10 countries are the same in televote/combined vote.
I wonder how long it will take the big 5 to realise that juries have offered a big nothing to the competition.

rajo
19th June 2012, 10:34
That Greece would be 9th and Turkey 4th?

Yeah, Greece (and Turkey)! Jury Voting is basically your fault because you always come up with songs hardly anyone likes and you are still Top 10.

With juries we could have had a different and worthy winner in the close 2005 and 2008 races.

WorldSong
19th June 2012, 10:42
I wonder why the televote had Spain as low as they where, while the jury had them so high. I thought the Spanish entry would appeal to everybody

daniels1000
19th June 2012, 11:04
I wonder why the televote had Spain as low as they where, while the jury had them so high. I thought the Spanish entry would appeal to everybody

I thought that for Italy ( and for Spain,but less ) . I thought that Italy will be placed around 8th place in jury and televoting.

Terence
19th June 2012, 11:19
Well, I always called the juries 'grandmas', so it would be weird not to vote for your own kind right? :lol:

Anyways, I don't get the hate for the Russian entry. It's gimmicky yes, but not at all dreadful. It's a cute little gem, mix of folk and Verka Serduchka disco :lol:


I didn't mind the Russian entry either, but it goes to show that every now & then juries can bat one eye to notes flying everywhere!! Even they found the grannies' charm irresistible (or maybe they were closer to the grannies' age, like you pointed out) :lol:

FilipFromSweden
19th June 2012, 12:24
I have always wanted jurys out of eurovision, they only support crappy songs and makes thing worse for countrys that deserved better.

FilipFromSweden
19th June 2012, 12:27
Everyone is like: Uh how could jury place Russia 8th?
You know, jury is people to. And those grannys are adorable and i you can't stop smiling when you see them ;)

WorldSong
19th June 2012, 12:27
I thought that for Italy ( and for Spain,but less ) . I thought that Italy will be placed around 8th place in jury and televoting.

Agreed. It seems that Italy and Spain followed the same fate, they did badly in the televote and well in the jury vote. One more reason for me to favour the jury over the televote. The televoting this year I completley disagree with. France 0 points? They where not good, but surely not 0 points?

Terence
19th June 2012, 12:49
I have always wanted jurys out of eurovision, they only support crappy songs and makes thing worse for countrys that deserved better.

They pushed Estonia, Spain and Italy in the top 10 instead of Greece & Ireland so I'm happy.

EurovisionSmile
19th June 2012, 13:23
Televoters are viewers of this contest, and since it was 2nd , then it means it was popular. Best In semifinal 1 , and 2nd in in final, and i sended 1 sms for them and 3 for Loreen.
And for people that dont get, it was not a joke song. Babushki were inviting you to a Party that is for everybody.


I like jury,because they saved Spain,Italy and Estonia

I totally agree with you on that point ;)

SpZ
19th June 2012, 13:45
Well the Babushki were awesome so they deserved their jury place. Too bad that they were still miles worse than in 2010

Somebody
19th June 2012, 14:08
Loreen. Jury and televote. :D

EurovisionSmile
19th June 2012, 14:11
Loreen. Jury and televote. :D

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Somebody
19th June 2012, 14:13
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

What a shock! :D

Somebody
19th June 2012, 14:15
Who the jury hurt in final: :D :D :D
Final Place Country Jury Televote Difference
2 Russia 94 332 -238
7 Turkey 50 176 -126
20 Ireland 14 89 -75
12 Romania 53 117 -64
1 Sweden 296 343 -47
3 Serbia 173 211 -38
4 Azerbaijan 118 151 -33
17 Greece 60 89 -29
8 Germany 98 125 -27
25 United Kingdom 11 36 -25
13 FYR Macedonia 69 79 -10
26 Norway 24 16 8
24 Hungary 30 20 10
14 Lithuania 82 68 14
18 Bosnia & Herz 71 57 14
19 Iceland 53 39 14
15 Cyprus 85 63 22
11 Moldova 104 75 29
22 Denmark 51 18 43
5 Albania 157 106 51
21 Malta 70 10 60
6 Estonia 152 78 74
23 France 85 0 85
16 Ukraine 125 37 88
9 Italy 157 56 101
10 Spain 154 45 109

MyHeartIsYours
19th June 2012, 16:57
Very interesting how Loreen only won by 11 points on the televote, I thought it'd be the other way around!

daniels1000
19th June 2012, 17:26
Maybe one reason why Romania did so bad with juries ( it's not just because of this :lol: )

Video of Mandinga performance on Jury Final.

Mistake on 2:04 and pretty worse singing than on Final


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh2_GQJiMEU

EurovisionSmile
19th June 2012, 17:35
Very interesting how Loreen only won by 11 points on the televote, I thought it'd be the other way around!

I always thought that Russia would be very close from Loreen in the televote. It was pretty obvious televoters would go wild for grannies :? :mrgreen:

daniels1000
19th June 2012, 17:36
I always thought that Russia would be very close from Loreen in the televote. It was pretty obvious televoters would go wild for grannies :? :mrgreen:

Agree :)

Synergise
19th June 2012, 18:12
UK vote in Semi Final 2. Numbers in brackets denote confirmed jury vote, followed by potential televote.

12 - Malta (12+6)
10 - Lithuania (2+12)
8 - Sweden (7+7)
7 - Estonia (10+4)
6 - Turkey (0+10)
5 - Bulgaria (0+8)
4 - Netherlands (3+5)
3 - Serbia (5+3)
2 - Ukraine (8+0)
1 - Bosnia (6+0)

Uk vote in Final.
12 - Sweden (6+7)
10 - Ireland (0+12)
8 - Spain (12+0)
7 - Lithuania (0+10)
6 - Germany (5+5)
5 - Malta (8+2)
4 - Estonia (10+0)
3 - Russia (0+8)
2 - Azerbaijan (7+0)
1 - Turkey (0+6)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/eurovision/2012/06/how-the-uk-jury-voted-in-eurov.shtml

Steffan
19th June 2012, 18:24
My Impressions:

Semi1:
Greece 3rd with jury WTF?
Iceland 11th with jury WTF?
Latvia got less points from jury than Montenegro or Austria WTF?
Albania 2nd with televotes WTF?

Semi2:
Ukraine 3rd with jury WTF?
Malta 5th with jury WTF?
Georgia 8th with jury WTF?
Portugal 12th with jury WTF?
Lithuania 3rd with televotes WTF?

Final:
Ukraine 7th with jury WTF?
Greece fell 15 places with jury since semi WTF (also Romania, Cyprus, Denmark)?
UK last with jury WTF?
Italy 17th with televotes, Spain 18th WTF?
Norway fell 18 places with televotes since semi WTF?
France 0 points with televotes WTF?


Ok, I'm done...

Terence
19th June 2012, 18:47
Agree with you on Greece Steffan... it's not as if there was a huge margin in vocals between the semi and the final

EurovisionSmile
19th June 2012, 19:36
Semi1:
Greece 3rd with jury WTF? agree,
Iceland 11th with jury WTF? agree, were they drunk?
Latvia got less points from jury than Montenegro or Austria WTF? agree
Albania 2nd with televotes WTF? don't agree, I love it and can understand that others were impressed with the general presentation of the song.


Semi2:
Ukraine 3rd with jury WTF? totally agree, what did they see in this song?
Malta 5th with jury WTF? agree, was it the feet choreography?
Georgia 8th with jury WTF? agree, deserved much worse
Portugal 12th with jury WTF? agree, deserved better
Lithuania 3rd with televotes WTF? agree, feels like asking: why?


Final:
Ukraine 7th with jury WTF? agree, terrible piece of ********
Greece fell 15 places with jury since semi WTF (also Romania, Cyprus, Denmark)? don't agree, there were 26 songs, 13 'new' songs.
UK last with jury WTF? don't agree, even the jury knew this was poor.
Italy 17th with televotes, Spain 18th WTF? agree, sometimes televoters have no taste at all
Norway fell 18 places with televotes since semi WTF? Don't agree, same reason as 'Greece' topic.
France 0 points with televotes WTF? agree, I didn't like the song, but it wasn't by any means the worst

So, I must say I agree with most of the points you've mentioned :mrgreen:

JackBauer
19th June 2012, 23:35
Well there is three big lessons from the last five contest!

Being an establish and experienced singer means nothing!

If you are playing in the Kaas & Soher's league, eurovision is not for you! They want modern ballad with young people, they don't care about good lyrics & Melody.

A promo tour is just stupid, only a good song counts, not matter who in their 20's sings it!

aletem
20th June 2012, 01:54
Vocal and overall performance also counts, and that is why France ended last with zero with the televoting.

JackBauer
20th June 2012, 04:05
Vocal only need to be decent, the song matters most!

I have to make a precision, i had France in mind when i talked about promo tour but Spain when i talked about etablished and experienced singers with good but a little outdated song

France had a bad performance of an okay song so you can't draw conclusions with it's last place except a okayish song with a bad performance from the big 5 is going to do very badly, but we knew that already.

Whereas Spain had a great song, a great performance but an over 35 singer and a litle outdated song for the contest and like Kaas she scored very badly with the televoters compared to the quality of her performance.

I guess you could add Austria 2011 & Slovenia 2011 & even Tom Dice to the category of (i don't like the word classy because it's like saying Azerbaijan 11 or Iceland 09 weren't that and this is wrong it was just more modern imo) a litte too old fashioned song who failed to please the young audience of the televoters.

I really do believe older people don't watch eurovision now, no orchestra, very modern songs and too much body parts shown for them to like this like they did in the 60-90 era

IgnacioSaade
20th June 2012, 05:51
Albania -.-

Spain, so bad in televote :( I saw the UK jury votes and I thought

12 Ireland
10 Lithuania
8 Russia
7 Sweden
6 Turkey
5 Germany
4 Greece???
3 Cyprus???
2 Malta
1 Anybody but Azerbaijan, Estonia or Spain

FallenAngelII
20th June 2012, 08:22
And their hate for Macedonia is unbelievably, seems they only like good live singers when they wail and act all American on us with their vocal gymnastics, but when they have great live vocals but with personality... then the juries doesn't appreciate it.
What the heck are you talking about? In semi-final 2, the juries gave Macedonia 58 points... a mere 5 points less than the televote. In the final, the jury gave Macedonia 10 points less than the televoters (69 vs. 79), while this resulted in a jury placing 6 spots below the televote placing, keep in mind that the juries' 16th and 15th got 70 and 71, so the gap was miniscule. The gap to the juries' 11th (the placing the televoters gave Macedonia) was 25 points, not that huge a margin.

The thing is that the juries spread their points out more evenly.


[COLOR="#000080"]
I feel bad for Bulgaria, the jury really wrecked it's chances. The same with Netherlands which I find really quite shocking as I thought Joan's song would have been something the jury would have appreciated.

The jury did alot of damage as well to Turkey in both the semi and final. Lots of damage also done to Jedward (thank the heavens above). Thought Macedonia would have done better with jury than public.
The juries are not impressed by gimmicks. Svetlana Loboda's Hell Machine in 2009, Eric Saade's glass cage in 2011 and this year, the Netherlands' Pocahontqas headdress (bizarelly paired with a ball gown), Turkey's boat, Russia's oven and Ireland's fountain.


I wouldn't call 12th place getting too much "jury love" though. However, in the case of Romania it's pretty obvious the juries are bitter party-killers.
Funny then how Sweden won the jury vote with a larger margin than with the televote and how Ukraine did much better with the juries than the televote. They simply did not like "Zalilaleh". Saying them not liking it equals them hating "party songs" is like saying the juries disliking the Hump's snoozefest must mean the juries hate ballads.

Romania's performance was messy. No synch, no overall choreography, just a bunch of people faking playing instruments and dancing around on the stage.



The other big shock for me is Ukraine doing terribly with the televotes, especially in SF2. I always thought they were televote kings. I don't want to start any racism issues, but is this because of the obvious? Maybe Christer Bjorkman was right after all?
France sent a black guy in 2010. The televoters voted him for 8th place.


Well, the juries weren't bothered with the awful combo of Italian and English in the Italian song now were they?
There were, like, 3 lines of Italian in "L'amore é femina".


he juries still treat it as the latter. They want those conventional ballads to be on top... actually nowadays the jury votes are probably more predictable than the televotes.
What do you classify Denmark's and the United Kingdom's entries as? Disco pop?


Jedward were like what 5th, 6th maybe last year with them. This year 25th!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry but that is a massive change of heart. A good change of heart dare I add:rolleyes:
They vote for songs and performances, not artists. Which is great. It's strange how Jedward did much better this year with the televote than they did last year when their song last year was much stronger. Just goes to show how the televoters should never again get 100% of the power.


Surprised the public showed more love to the UK than the juries actually...
It's probably a case of "Vote for the artist". People who are fans of the Hump voted for him blindly because it was him.


Then I got bored of sifting through all of the posts. I'll only reply to new posts from now on.

RainyWoods
20th June 2012, 14:27
The UK Jury votes have got to be the worst out of all the countries ive seen soo far.. I was having a hard time keeping my afternoon lunch inside of me as I read themxpuke

FilipFromSweden
25th June 2012, 21:22
La La La La Love

CC92
1st September 2012, 13:28
The 100% televote did not work out in the past (at least according to the vast majority) and not counting some online fans here and there, the system is rather popular so I don't believe it's going to change anytime soon.

I do not think it so much the system and the changes it brought which are popular compared to the last years of televoting but rather the fact that recently the 'right' countries rocked the scoreboards. It is beyond me why the general public should want the songs they voted for to be degraded. If there was, however, broader public support for the 'jury' involvement mainly in certain countries this would be probably owing to biased reporting in the media implying that else Western contestants would not stand a fair chance or generally would fare a lot worse. My opinion is clear: reveal both votes during the live show (as done in most NFs, btw) and then we shall see how people will react to them. This being said, I am not so naive thinking the EBU would not do this because it has not occurred to them yet or that they just did not find time sooner so I do not expect it to happen in the near future either. I can reveal though that I have lost interest since then and seriously consider stop following the event.
And a concluding remark: When some countries are not allowed to lose right from the start it is not a contest anyway.