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goktengri
18th August 2010, 15:34
http://www.hotelscombined.gr/syria_flag.png

A-lister
20th October 2010, 23:10
NO!

Who's coming up with all these random suggestions anyhow?

goktengri
21st October 2010, 10:14
NO!

Who's coming up with all these random suggestions anyhow?

Syria closer to europe more than some countries in eurovision ;)

A-lister
21st October 2010, 13:04
Syria closer to europe more than some countries in eurovision ;)

Ehm no they're not.

What countries do you refer to? Every country that isn't "fully european" in ESC atleast borders to Europe. I wouldn't say that much about Syria.

As for Israel we all know why they're in so not much to discuss there now.

Syria has nothing to do with Eurovision. It is not geographically European, not culturally, not politically and it doesn't even border to Europe and it has no Eurovision history aswell. Makes no sense.

Scooby
21st October 2010, 14:42
Syria on Eurovision?
That's non sense

goktengri
21st October 2010, 16:39
Ehm no they're not.

What countries do you refer to? Every country that isn't "fully european" in ESC atleast borders to Europe. I wouldn't say that much about Syria.

As for Israel we all know why they're in so not much to discuss there now.

Syria has nothing to do with Eurovision. It is not geographically European, not culturally, not politically and it doesn't even border to Europe and it has no Eurovision history aswell. Makes no sense.

I can't see any problem with more cultures in Eurovision.

Israeliboy
21st October 2010, 19:44
I can see. In case Israel will win, Do you think they will accept Israeli singer in ESC in Syria? A country who behave like this (like Lebanon/Syria and all the group) should first know what is EUROVISION and don't mix politics. If they don't want broadcast the Israeli performance, do you really think we need such a country in ESC? It's childish :/ . . .

And I think I can say: END OF TOPIC 8-)

goktengri
21st October 2010, 19:56
I can see. In case Israel will win, Do you think they will accept Israeli singer in ESC in Syria? A country who behave like this (like Lebanon/Syria and all the group) should first know what is EUROVISION and don't mix politics. If they don't want broadcast the Israeli performance, do you really think we need such a country in ESC? It's childish :/ . . .

And I think I can say: END OF TOPIC 8-)

How do you know that ? It's a wrong prejudice. I don't think that they'll not broadcast when israeli singer started the show, This topic shouldn't be closed with someones' prejudices.

A-lister
21st October 2010, 20:04
I can't see any problem with more cultures in Eurovision.

Well not all of us want this to become some "UN peace conference song contest farce"... it's not about cultures, it's about not turning this into one big joke.

I want this to just be... well EUROvision.

Worldvision would be too major.

goktengri
21st October 2010, 20:15
Well not all of us want this to become some "UN peace conference song contest farce"... it's not about cultures, it's about not turning this into one big joke.

I want this to just be... well EUROvision.

Worldvision would be too major.

Eurovision can tolerance some non-european countries, And Syria deserves it too. Cause it's a well modern country. Syria can send distanced songs from their cultures. But if they send songs from their cultures, there is no problem with it too. Aren't there already middle eastern culture in eurovision ? :)

Scooby
21st October 2010, 20:53
OMG This is EUROvision, music competition for European countries (and plus Israel of course ) and end of story.
What letters you don't understand in this word EUROVISION.

We had already Morocco, and it ended badly. Their most famous female singer Samira BensaÔd was finished at the bottom on 1980 (I think).
Europeans don't understand the sense of her song
Europe for Europeans!!!!

94ayd
21st October 2010, 20:58
It was 2nd to last for her. All of her 7 points came from Italy but yeah, I believe she had the best song and should have won. :mrgreen:

seb89
21st October 2010, 22:18
I can't see the problem :s. I mean Georgia, Armenia,... aren't in Europe, but if I understand it correctly they are accepted because the have borders with Russia?

So why can't Syria participate? They have borders with Turkey and IsraŽl (closed, but a border) AND if you look on the map. Syria is closer to Europe than Georgia, Armenia,...

That's not the reason why they can't participate.

If you say the culture is too different, than the concept of Eurovision doesn't work anymore. You can't say the Balkan Music is the same as French Music and English Pop isn't the same as Nederpop...

The only thing that is a bit controversial is that it isn't a democracy and yes I think they will not broadcast the Israeli performance. If they can guarantee that they will broadcast it, I don't think it is a problem!

A-lister
21st October 2010, 22:52
I can't see the problem :s. I mean Georgia, Armenia,... aren't in Europe, but if I understand it correctly they are accepted because the have borders with Russia?

So why can't Syria participate? They have borders with Turkey and IsraŽl (closed, but a border) AND if you look on the map. Syria is closer to Europe than Georgia, Armenia,...

That's not the reason why they can't participate.

If you say the culture is too different, than the concept of Eurovision doesn't work anymore. You can't say the Balkan Music is the same as French Music and English Pop isn't the same as Nederpop...

The only thing that is a bit controversial is that it isn't a democracy and yes I think they will not broadcast the Israeli performance. If they can guarantee that they will broadcast it, I don't think it is a problem!

Ehm?

Most of Georgia's area is actually Europan. Armenia is culturally European and was part of the Soviet Union and is a direct neighbor to Europe and sometimes even considered partly European in general, so how can you say "Syria is closer to Europe" than those... on what terms really? Because it's (Syria) not closer geographically, nor culturally, nor historically, nor politically... so on what terms are you refering to? Makes no sense.

I mean this contest would just turn into a farce if every country and his cousin would take part.

This is EUROvision not WORLDvision.

goktengri
21st October 2010, 22:53
If they can guarantee that they will broadcast it, I don't think it is a problem!

I believe that Syria wouldn't make a fuss about it if they accepted :)

A-lister
21st October 2010, 22:55
Eurovision can tolerance some non-european countries, And Syria deserves it too. Cause it's a well modern country. Syria can send distanced songs from their cultures. But if they send songs from their cultures, there is no problem with it too. Aren't there already middle eastern culture in eurovision ? :)

Syria a modern country!?!? :lol:

Lebanon is considereded more modern and liberal and couldn't make themselves even show the Israeli entry.

I mean let Eurovision be.

We don't want some UN peace conference farce out of this contest.

goktengri
21st October 2010, 23:11
Syria a modern country!?!? :lol:

Lebanon is considereded more modern and liberal and couldn't make themselves even show the Israeli entry.

I mean let Eurovision be.

We don't want some UN peace conference farce out of this contest.

We don't talk about Lebanon here. I think Syria is a modern country :) How do you think it is not ? :/

Scooby
21st October 2010, 23:15
It would be very funny to see Morocco (again);Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia (coz they bordered with Russia), Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and of course China (many chinese live in Europe).
And don't forgot the Greenland.

"Hello Europe! This is Tehran calling! ..... and our 12 points go tooooooooooo Syria"
Salam alaykum and mighty Allah bless all believers!

Host: "Thank you Iran, now we go to Dushanbe!
Hello Dushanbe, good evening Tajikistan..........

come on guys, are you serious?

goktengri
21st October 2010, 23:21
It would be very funny to see Morocco (again);Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Mongolia (coz they bordered with Russia), Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and of course China (many chinese live in Europe).
And don't forgot the Greenland.

"Hello Europe! This is Tehran calling! ..... and our 12 points go tooooooooooo Syria"
Salam alaykum and mighty Allah bless all believers!

Host: "Thank you Iran, now we go to Dushanbe!
Hello Dushanbe, good evening Tajikistan..........

come on guys, are you serious?

Iran gives 12 points to Saudi Arabia, not Syria, I think. :lol:

Syria is different. Kazakhstan and Syria deserves to participate in Eurovision. I don't know others. But only these 2 modern and lovely countries wouldn't be a problem for Eurovision IMO ;)

Israeliboy
22nd October 2010, 10:22
How do you know that ? It's a wrong prejudice. I don't think that they'll not broadcast when israeli singer started the show, This topic shouldn't be closed with someones' prejudices.

Come on ;)...If Lebanon who has SOMEHOW better relationship with Israel than Israel-Syria. Do u really think they will show the Israeli singer? Althug, really COME ON ... !!! Even Jordan didn't show the Israeli entries in time they put ESC on their channels, so Syria? What is the difference? ;).... It makes no sense really, it's 100% they won't broadcast the Israeli performance!!!

goktengri
22nd October 2010, 10:56
Come on ;)...If Lebanon who has SOMEHOW better relationship with Israel than Israel-Syria. Do u really think they will show the Israeli singer? Althug, really COME ON ... !!! Even Jordan didn't show the Israeli entries in time they put ESC on their channels, so Syria? What is the difference? ;).... It makes no sense really, it's 100% they won't broadcast the Israeli performance!!!

We can give a chance for Syria as they deserves it, You shouldn't see as ONE all the arab countries. It doesn't mean if jordan and lebanon did it, syria will do it. Actually it makes non sense. ;)

But the problem is actually you don't want to them in ESC, if they'll broadcast, will you accept them ? ;)

seb89
22nd October 2010, 11:49
But the problem is actually you don't want to them in ESC, if they'll broadcast, will you accept them ? ;)

If so,yes! But I can ensure you they really really won't! I had a Syrian friend and when we first met, he asked if I know Syria and I replied 'yes, it's situated close to IsraŽl' and he went mad!

And yes, it is not a modern country, but yeah there are countries that participate in the contest and that aren't 'modern'. If you know what I mean. So actually that wouldn't be a problem.

WTF about cultural semblances with Europe? Georgia and Armenia were part of the Soviet Union. Mhhhhm yeah as far as I remembered that time was called 'Cold war'. Wasn't it like Soviet Union was againts European and American policies and their culture? And yeah, I really think the Soviet Union was really a part of Europe :?.

And if you reffer to Soviet Union, then you can say: yes, Syria can participate because at the time it was a colony of France and the UK :lol:

MyHeartIsYours
22nd October 2010, 13:25
Geographically, Syria I feel is an acceptable distance to participate. However, culturally and politically it is a definite no no.

Israeliboy
22nd October 2010, 16:36
As long as they don't have problem to broadcast the Israeli performance lol I don't have a problem...even if I don't want them, I won't say "I am not ESC fan anymore" lol!!! ...But they won't accept, I know very well THEY WON'T.....Especially a country which is a big friend of IRAN lol!!!

goktengri
22nd October 2010, 17:55
If so,yes! But I can ensure you they really really won't! I had a Syrian friend and when we first met, he asked if I know Syria and I replied 'yes, it's situated close to IsraŽl' and he went mad!

And yes, it is not a modern country, but yeah there are countries that participate in the contest and that aren't 'modern'. If you know what I mean. So actually that wouldn't be a problem.

WTF about cultural semblances with Europe? Georgia and Armenia were part of the Soviet Union. Mhhhhm yeah as far as I remembered that time was called 'Cold war'. Wasn't it like Soviet Union was againts European and American policies and their culture? And yeah, I really think the Soviet Union was really a part of Europe :?.

And if you reffer to Soviet Union, then you can say: yes, Syria can participate because at the time it was a colony of France and the UK :lol:

but you can't blame all the Syrian people with only one person :/

I still think Syria is a modern country, you can't know that they'll make a problem or not about israel before participating, so Syria deserves a chance. I don't care about Syrian-Israeli relations in politics. ;)

but i don't know what you meant, what countries you talking about ? I think all the countries are modern in Eurovision. ;)

goktengri
22nd October 2010, 17:57
But they won't accept, I know very well THEY WON'T.....Especially a country which is a big friend of IRAN lol!!!

What friend ? There may be Syria-Iran relations in politics but how do you link it with eurovision ?

Israeliboy
22nd October 2010, 18:10
Althug, I ask you a real question, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? . . . .What will be the next thing you'll say....that Syrian media is not connected to the politics there? Do you have 9 Syrian channels in your tv? I know Syria very well. God, don't try to make them look normal, cause they are not radical!

goktengri
22nd October 2010, 18:22
Althug, I ask you a real question, WHERE DO YOU LIVE? . . . .What will be the next thing you'll say....that Syrian media is not connected to the politics there? Do you have 9 Syrian channels in your tv? I know Syria very well. God, don't try to make them look normal, cause they are not radical!

You can't say they won't broadcast the Israeli show before they participated. ;) I believe that ESC committee will talk about broadcasting rules with Syrian TV if they'll want to participate. So if they say we don't want to broadcast them, they already don't let Syria for participating. :)

For the rest, I'm not interested with what kind of country is Syria, It's no matter for ESC, but if you want to talk about it, we can keep on this discussing in Politics forum ;) Cause Syria is not only your neighbour, i know somethings too. :)

Israeliboy
22nd October 2010, 18:44
Sure, If they will accept to broadcast the Israeli performance, they can enter, but they won't accept it, so this is my point.
You can have Syria as your neighbour, I am not interested in Syria as neighbour, take it for you ;)

seb89
22nd October 2010, 18:44
I don't judge Syria because of that one person :P. I was meant to be an example.

I think you get me wrong: what I mean with modern country isn't their infrastructure or if they have high tech or not, but just democracy in general. Syria isn't really a democracy, just like other European countries where there is 'no real oposition'. I prefer not to say their names :P.

Scooby
23rd October 2010, 20:02
Syria has never had anything in common with Europe!
I don't care for their political system, I don't care for level of democracy there .
We have 5 geographical non European countries at ESC (Turkey, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan) and that's enough.

If people in rest of the worlds love show like Eurovision, they can make own version of that show.

goktengri
23rd October 2010, 21:05
We have 5 geographical non European countries at ESC (Turkey, Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan) and that's enough.

East Thrace is a part of Europe geographically, and it makes us different from other non-european countries. At least we have some lands in Europe. ;)

seb89
23rd October 2010, 21:19
Yeah Scooby, you are right, but Turkey is like goktengri says a part of Europa and official candidate for the European Union :D

Anyway, I'm still glad Israel, Armenia, Georgia and Azerbajan participate, because they really have good music :D!!

MyHeartIsYours
24th October 2010, 01:37
The difference is that Turkey, Israel, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Cyprus all have Europeanish cultures generally and therefore it is acceptable for them to participate in Eurovision. Syria however, has absolutely nothing in common with Europe, no shared values, no shared culture. The only slight connection I can see between Syria and Europe is that it was a mandate of France until the 1940's, therefore there should be absolutely no consideration as to Syrian participation in Eurovision.

94ayd
24th October 2010, 19:34
Actually, all Turkey, Georgia & Azerbaijan have part of their terriotry in Europe. Armenia's really clsoe, too, but their culture's really European anyway... Cyprus is not European at all, concerning geography, but there are Greeks there, so yeah... Israel's made up of European Jews, I guess and is defintiely closer to Europe, compared to the Arab countries around it...

goktengri
16th November 2010, 01:35
Actually, all Turkey, Georgia & Azerbaijan have part of their terriotry in Europe. Armenia's really clsoe, too, but their culture's really European anyway... Cyprus is not European at all, concerning geography, but there are Greeks there, so yeah... Israel's made up of European Jews, I guess and is defintiely closer to Europe, compared to the Arab countries around it...

America continent founded by europeans. So should we accept USA too ?

Then it is a discrimination when you reject a country that is closer to europe more than some countries in eurovision. We need strong reasons to reject them. ;) We have half-middle eastern culture like them, Israel has too. And yep Israel more liberal but it is about politics and i can't see any cultural, geographical difference between Israel and Syria.

What's the reason ? Their religion is more good for Europeans than Islam ?

Thank God, EBU doesn't think like we. They don't look at political and religios issues. :)

MyHeartIsYours
16th November 2010, 11:11
And what do you propose should happen to all the gay and female fans if Syria should win Eurovision Altug? ;)

goktengri
16th November 2010, 12:19
And what do you propose should happen to all the gay and female fans if Syria should win Eurovision Altug? ;)

Do you really believe that Syria will win the Eurovision ?

MyHeartIsYours
16th November 2010, 15:47
It wouldn't be impossible, far more likely than the UK winning!! :lol:

Silverhelsinki
16th November 2010, 16:03
Does there really have to be a thread like this for every single country? Come on guys, Syria isn't going to be in the Eurovision :p

goktengri
16th November 2010, 17:52
Does there really have to be a thread like this for every single country? Come on guys, Syria isn't going to be in the Eurovision :p

Why ? If they'll apply, they'll be accepted.

Scooby
19th November 2010, 21:09
@ goktengri

You really become to annoying everyone with your stories about arab countries on ESC!
OK I understand that you support that ideas, but stop convincing others in that!!!!

goktengri
19th November 2010, 21:39
@ goktengri

You really become to annoying everyone with your stories about arab countries on ESC!
OK I understand that you support that ideas, but stop convincing others in that!!!!

What do you mean ? They have right to participate if some non-europeans can participate in ESC. ;) I don't tell any stories, I'm just trying to support their rights !!

Never talk with me in such tone next time ! If you don't want them in ESC, Why are you still in this thread ?

Israeliboy
20th November 2010, 10:24
Non-European countries mh...for me it goes like "00's non-European countries" and Israel (In Esc since 1973, before another European countries) :)

As for Syria, I don't think they can take part in ESC, as long as they put their EGO first and cultrue in other place (Not as Israel, if Syria will take part, we won't have problems to show their performance, as we DO broadcast their channels on our TV)!

goktengri
21st November 2010, 02:19
Non-European countries mh...for me it goes like "00's non-European countries" and Israel (In Esc since 1973, before another European countries) :)

As for Syria, I don't think they can take part in ESC, as long as they put their EGO first and cultrue in other place (Not as Israel, if Syria will take part, we won't have problems to show their performance, as we DO broadcast their channels on our TV)!

what's the problem with culture ?

MyHeartIsYours
21st November 2010, 14:57
Eurovision is supposed to be for European culture, not Islamic/Arabic culture...

Israeliboy
21st November 2010, 18:23
what's the problem with culture ?

I have no problem with their culture, this is the point. I have a problem with the fact they put their EGO first and their CULTURE second. Means, they prefer not to take part in ESC for political reasons and put their EGO like it's the most important thing to do. This is my point :)

goktengri
22nd November 2010, 00:20
Eurovision is supposed to be for European culture, not Islamic/Arabic culture...

It's up to Eurovision authorities :) Remember Morocco ;)

MyHeartIsYours
22nd November 2010, 00:41
It is up to Eurovision authorities but I can tell you that people in the UK and I'd imagine the rest of Westernized Europe dont want Arabic culture in EUROvision. Why cant they have their own contest? Arabiavision?
And yes Morocco did participate but it was found very quickly that having an African/Arabic country in the contest didnt work, hence they only participated once ;).

goktengri
22nd November 2010, 00:51
It is up to Eurovision authorities but I can tell you that people in the UK and I'd imagine the rest of Westernized Europe dont want Arabic culture in EUROvision. Why cant they have their own contest? Arabiavision?
And yes Morocco did participate but it was found very quickly that having an African/Arabic country in the contest didnt work, hence they only participated once ;).

I wouldn't like to see Arabian culture in Eurovision personally too, but also i don't want to be against them if they want to participate.

goktengri
16th January 2011, 21:19
I found a Syrian ESC group. One of my friends invited me, It is not so big but nice to see that there are some ESC lovers in Syria

http://www.facebook.com/pages/OGAE-Syria/100444806700645

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs005.snc6/165566_100452690033190_100444806700645_1088_732710 _n.jpg

Suriye-prensi
29th January 2011, 18:04
who visit syria - cridle of civilizations - would judge .... !!

Suriye-prensi
29th January 2011, 18:07
its not big for European fans of OGAE-SYRIA but its big here ;)

AlekS
29th January 2011, 19:19
I agree with people in 1 thing. If Syrian side values politics more than music in Eurovision Song Contest then they won't be allowed because this is against EBU rules.

If they agree to broadcast ESC in full size without cutting out Israel (or any other country) then I'd love to see them.

ps. I don't think that ESC is a cultural contest. Culture takes a little share there. Austria doesn't send yoddle all the time, nobody sends folk every damn year (thank gawd). We share music, all kinds of music. What culture in general or politics has to do with that? Nothing.

A-lister
29th January 2011, 20:13
^
It's named Eurovision though, not Worldvision or Eurabiavision.

True it's not a folkmusic fest, but it's a music contest to bring Europe together and share our talents (and sometimes culture aswell) and for some this is important to stay that way.

I don't think Eurovision should be used as some sort of political UN arena allowing every single country in, if it wasn't about politics until now, it would most probably be then. There's no use in making a parody out of the contest.

Also, it's about not making it way too big either.

AlekS
29th January 2011, 20:53
^
It's named Eurovision though, not Worldvision or Eurabiavision.
say that to Israel or Morocco ;)

I certainly don't mind Arabian counries within European Broadcasting Area and I'm not gonna making up any excuses. Once they fit all EBU rules they have to enter if they want.

A-lister
29th January 2011, 21:05
^
say that to Israel or Morocco ;)
Egypt?
I certainly don't mind Arabian counries within European Broadcasting Area and I'm not gonna making up any excuses. Once they fit all EBU rules they have to enter if they want.

Israel is competing as part of Europe not only when it comes to Eurovision, but in other occasions aswell such as world cups etc. and it's really a special case and there are reasons for this. The Arab countries doesn't have these special reasons. Also, they've (Israel) competed since the 70's, so it would be unlogically to throw them out really after all those years. Also this is a discussion for debutants, and I don't see the other as an excuse for including more countries outside Europe that are unattached to it.

As for Morocco, I still don't agree with they entering either, and their Eurovision history became short as we all know and can't be compared with Israel that have a longer history in this contest than many of the other competing ones aswell.

I know the EBU rules very well, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with them though and I want them to change for Eurovision. We will never agree here, some see this as potential Worldvision contest, I will never do that for different reasons.

Let's agree to disagree ;)

AlekS
29th January 2011, 21:23
^ EBU organizes the contest. Not you.
As for Morocco. You can disagree so much time as you want. It won't change the fact that they have already participated and they can enter again.

Excuse?!!! So EBU rules is an excuse? :lol:

some see this as potential Worldvision contest... and what does it have to do with me?
fyi, Syria is not the whole world.

Also I don't care for how long Israel has already competed. It's not the reason :p
Accept all EBA members (when they meet all criterias) or do not accept anyone. We should be fair.

A-lister
29th January 2011, 21:35
^ EBU organizes the contest. Not you.
As for Morocco. You can disagree so much time as you want. It won't change the fact that they have already participated and they can enter again.

Ehm? We're here to discuss right? With that logic, we shouldn't even discuss this at all since it would be EBU's decision in the end afterall and we should have no say or any opinion on anything regarding Eurovision or the rules whatsoever. Now what would be a point with a discussion forum then if we have to agree with everything??

I am free to have whatever opinion about this as I want and I don't have to agree with the current rules and I have the right to express so if I want to. Also rules are not set in stone, obviously they can be changed so it's no wrong to have an opinion on them, as a matter of fact it is never wrong and is everyone's right to have opinions on stuff.



Excuse?!!! So EBU rules is an excuse? :lol:

Huh? I am not sure if I know what in my comment you are referring to here.



some see this as potential Worldvision contest... and what does it have to do with me?
fyi, Syria is not the whole world.

That's not my point. Today Syria, tomorrow another country. Just accept the fact that some want this to continue being a European contest. You don't have to agree though, but lots of people agree with me on this.



Also I don't care for how long Israel has already competed. It's not the reason :p
Accept all EBA members or do not accept anyone. We should be fair.

You don't have to care, but I don't see how a country that have competed in the contest for 30 years can be used as an excuse for new countries.

That's your opinion, I beg to differ though. You're entitled to disagree with me offcourse, but I am entitled to have my own opinion on the matter aswell and we are here to discuss this and we don't have to think the same all the time, and as I stated above we could also have opinions about the EBU's rules according this.

Israeliboy
29th January 2011, 21:56
^^Aleks, you don't have any rights to say something against Israel in ESC. ISRAEL IS IN ESC LONG LONG LONG BEFORE UKRAINE TOOK PART, OK?

Israeliboy
29th January 2011, 22:00
You don't have to care, but I don't see how a country that have competed in the contest for 30 years can be used as an excuse for new countries.



Not only, Israel won 3 times and hosted Esc in Jerusalem twice. Israel brought a lot of things to Esc, from Hallelujah to Dana International as the first trans in Esc.
So give me a favor!

MyHeartIsYours
29th January 2011, 22:02
Syria mustn't join, they can't join. You can't have a contest, which has a majority gay following, allowing the participation of a country where homosexuality is illegal - what happens if they win?? Gay fans have to stay with abstinence like Qatar has disgustingly suggested for the World Cup? What's happened to putting pressure on countries with unacceptable human rights through entertainment and culture like we all did with Apartheid South Africa??
And what happens when female performers want to perform with less clothes than Syrian law would find acceptable?

AlekS
29th January 2011, 22:11
Ehm? We're here to discuss right? With that logic, we shouldn't even discuss this at all since it would be EBU's decision in the end afterall and we should have no say or any opinion on anything regarding Eurovision or the rules whatsoever. Now what would be a point with a discussion forum then if we have to agree with everything??

Ehm? Did somebody prohibit you to discuss? :geek:

Following your logic... am I supposed to agree with you all the time? It was you who quoted my message so I guess it's you disagreeing with me on the 1st place? Did I prohibit you to disagree?

And do we have a say actually? Is that you who orders EBU what to do? No.

Discussion forum? Does someone urge you to agree with everything? Where? :o :shock:

Or it's you who organizes the contest?
I repeat. Does somebody shut your mouth and prohibit you to disagree???





Today Syria, tomorrow another country. Just accept the fact that some wants this to continue being a European contest.
Justa accept the fact that it's physically impossible for ESC to become Worldvision so "Today Syria, tomorrow another country" excuse is lame.
Accept the fact that some people think differently than you.
I am free to have whatever opinion about this as I want and I don't have to agree with your opinion and I have the right to express so, if I want to.




You don't have to care, but I don't see how a country that have competed in the contest for 30 years can be used as an excuse for new countries.
Exactly my words to you ;) You were first who mentioned Israel participating for so many years, not me.





That's your opinion, I beg to differ though. You're entitled to disagree with me offcourse, but I am entitled to have my own opinion on the matter aswell and we are here to discuss this and we don't have to think the same all the time, and as I stated above we could also have opinions about the EBU's rules according this.
I'm happy that you're beg to differ but what's the use of this paragraph of yours? Did someone take your holy right to disagree from you?

Matt
29th January 2011, 22:11
Alright, let's just clear things up here.

1. Aleks was NOT saying Israel does not belong in ESC, he simply was using Israel as an example about not letting European countries into the contest (could use azerbaijan or even cyprus if you want to as an example) is a unfair and hypocritical thing to say cause if we allow one country then we cannot play judges and say this country is worthy and the other one is not.

2. We cannot say ESC is "gay" competition as that mostly applies to the Western european culture. IN eastern europe it is wildly popular everywhere. So just because syria does have rather anti gay stance does not disqualify them. That is a rule making no sense. What rules they need to follow are the ones set by the EBU.

3. I get that european have become a quite exclusive club but this is music and as long as the EBU is setting the rules, there is nothing we can do about. Sure we can share our opinions and either agree or disagree with that but at the end of the day there is nothing we can do about it and making judgments (at least some of the ones I can see here) are unfair and uncalled for.

AlekS
29th January 2011, 22:14
Not only, Israel won 3 times and hosted Esc in Jerusalem twice. Israel brought a lot of things to Esc, from Hallelujah to Dana International as the first trans in Esc.
So give me a favor!
So? Does that mean that you're more privileged than someone else (who actually has the same rights to join)?

Israeliboy
29th January 2011, 22:15
So? Does that mean that you're more privileged than someone else (who actually has the same rights to join)?

Aleks, leave it, I won't even answer to you!

A-lister
29th January 2011, 22:15
Ehm? Did somebody prohibit you to discuss? :geek:

Following your logic... am I supposed to agree with you all the time? It was you who quoted my message so I guess it's you disagreeing with me on the 1st place? Did I prohibit you to disagree?

And do we have a say actually? Is that you who orders EBU what to do? No.

Discussion forum? Does someone urge you to agree with everything? Where? :o :shock:

Or it's you who organizes the contest?
I repeat. Does somebody shut your mouth and prohibit you to disagree???

You don't have to agree with me and I never said that, you on the other hand made it clear that my opinion is more or less pointless since it's EBU who organizes it, and you do it again in this new comment.

No I don't organize it, nor do I "order" them anything (gosh you are joking right with these answers? Where did I write these things?), I'm just stating my opinion on the rules, which clearly you got some problem with, otherwise you wouldn't answer the way you are doing and misinterpret what I've written.



Justa accept the fact that it's physically impossible for ESC to become Worldvision so "Today Syria, tomorrow another country" excuse is lame.
Accept the fact that some people think differently than you.
I am free to have whatever opinion about this as I want and I don't have to agree with your opinion and I have the right to express so if I want to.



Exactly my words to you ;) You were first who mentioned Israel participating for so amny years, not me.




I'm happy that you're beg to differ but what's the use of this paragraph of yours? Did someone take your holy right to disagree from you?

Your answers are not very accepting of other opinions AlekS. I don't have to write anything more on that. I'll respect your opinion, but respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

I pointed out what I wanted to say and I rest my case, disagree with me as much as you want.

goktengri
29th January 2011, 22:19
If Syria accepts all EBU rules and wants to participate, who could stop them to participate ? EBU will accept them ! So, we're talking so much here but it doesn't really matter ;)

A-lister
29th January 2011, 22:22
2. We cannot say ESC is "gay" competition as that mostly applies to the Western european culture. IN eastern europe it is wildly popular everywhere. So just because syria does have rather anti gay stance does not disqualify them. That is a rule making no sense. What rules they need to follow are the ones set by the EBU.


Well, personally I never use the "gay" argument since I've always seen Eurovision being more than just a "gay competition", although I acknowledge that in many countries it is widely seen as that, including my own country.

I think your comparison with Eastern Europe is very unfair though. In Syria (and all other countries in Northern Africa/Middle East, except for Israel) gay is a crime, it is NOT a crime in Eastern Europe.

Matt
29th January 2011, 22:27
I didn't compare syria and eastern europe. all i said is said in eastern europe it's not considered a "gay" contest ;)

AlekS
29th January 2011, 22:29
You don't have to agree with me and I never said that, you on the other hand made it clear that my opinion is more or less pointless since it's EBU who organizes it, and you do it again in this new comment.
Now thats' what I call a clear disrespect.
Where did I say that your opinion is pointless? I said that you don't make decisions for EBU. Where did I say that your opinion is not important.



Your answers are not very accepting of other opinions AlekS. I don't have to write anything more on that. I'll respect your opinion, but respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.
And where I didn't ACCEPT your right to disagree?
And why should I think like you if I disagree with you? :o
Yes, I agree with you in 1 thing. Respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

A-lister
29th January 2011, 22:34
I didn't compare syria and eastern europe. all i said is said in eastern europe it's not considered a "gay" contest ;)

Oh lol sorry I misunderstood you point a bit then.

Well, you are right about that for sure!

As for MyHeart...'s comment though, I can sort of understand that in a way. Alot of fans AND even some broadcasters even will be turned off and will we see other type of censoring aswell??

I think it's tricky really. It's really not that simple I think as some make it look like. I think the Swedish broadcaster might pull out for instance. I mean our head of delegation is gay and alot of others there aswell, will they travel to a country where their sexuality is a crime?

A-lister
29th January 2011, 22:37
Now thats' what I call a clear disrespect.
Where did I say that your opinion is pointless? I said that you don't make decisions for EBU. Where did I say that your opinion is not important.

And where I didn't ACCEPT your right to disagree?
And why should I think like you if I disagree with you? :o
Yes, I agree with you in 1 thing. Respect is clearly not going both ways obviously.

I'll make this quick, as I really don't want to argue with you here.

Sorry AlekS, but the way you answered was like "oh well, think what you want but it doesn't matter anyhow". It may have not been your intention, but that's how it came across.

And again, no you don't have to think like me, and I never said that.

I think we should leave this, because there's already too much misunderstandings that it will just turn out wrong.

MyHeartIsYours
29th January 2011, 22:41
Matt, nobody is saying it should be an actual rule that countries must be gay-friendly but it's a matter of principle and morals to exclude a country that doesn't give full human rights to the majority of fans of the contest.
Anyway, what's the point - they're never going to join lol.

AlekS
29th January 2011, 22:44
@A-lister... "oh well, think what you want but it doesn't matter anyhow".
I never said that it doesn't matter ;)
I said that it's EBU who decides. Sometimes they listen to public and sometimes they don't, but public (not just you btw, me too :lol:) doesn't register decisions.
Sorry, but my opinion was clear and didn't come out across as rude.

Yeah, let's both stop arguing because there is too much of missunderstandings.

Scooby
29th January 2011, 23:30
Modern day Israel is much more european than many geographical european countries!

AlekS
29th January 2011, 23:50
for me Israel is etalon (model) from non-European (geographically) countries.
Like it or not but it will always be compared and it will always win the comparison xshrug :)
@Adir ... so I don't get why I should be treated in such way for mentioning Israel in this context. I meant that Israel deserved its place. Others should deserve it too. Also I don't get about history. You know how I treat Israel and I never said anything bad about it. Would be weird for a half-jew.

However nobody says that Syria should join right now.
Obviously this won't happen. Not in the few upcoming decades - for sure.

bubblingtrue
4th March 2012, 21:20
As if Syria would ever enter ESC!!