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Ezio
12th May 2018, 16:02
I love Eurovision, but it could even better if the following things go away for good:


- producer's draw: a computer would make it more fair and exciting

- Christer Björkman: one who is obsessed with his own country's success, should produce the national final at best and nothing more to say in the actual Eurovision

- wiwibloggs: they are overly dramatic, are too personal with the acts that it becomes cringeworthy to watch, are ripping off the music for their own profit by selling t-shirts and still are entitled to completely rip an act they are cozying up with

- hosting in English: since the commentators talk over everything anyways, the hosts could as well just speak Portuguese, French or German

- the overall design and scoreboard: the layout and colour schemes are boring and depressing, I want different fonts, different colours and a fresh new scoreboard every year, that hasn't changed since 2016

- the German jury, they all vote the same, they could just have one person be the juror

- jurors who are affiliated with record labels, which have artists in the competition, equal bias and corruption

- reporting based on odds: Odds are a big thing in the UK, maybe Spain and other smaller Western European countries. They don't tell anything much about how the majority of Europe is impressed or not, and yet every hype is based on odds

- the negativity: some Eurofans only have bad things to say about most of the other countries except their own

- the 365 days until the next contest, because the wait is just too long

midnightsun
12th May 2018, 16:15
I agree with everything apart the wiwibloggs thing (I actually like them) and the overall design... like it too.

Things that need to go imo:

- 26 participants! Way too many! Reduce to twenty but do preselections (e.g. Scandinavia, Ex-Sovjet countries, Southern Europe, Western Europe etc.) before the final. No more semi-finals. Also, it wouldn't disadvantage the prequalified 6 who never get to perform for a tv audience in the semis.

Citelis
12th May 2018, 16:15
I disagree in most of them!

However i agree that wiwibloggs is horrible page!

EscGeek
12th May 2018, 16:19
big 5

go through the semi like the rest of us

simonPL
12th May 2018, 16:30
Let the girls be on the audience! #EuqalityForAll #FemaleLivesMatter #JusticeForWoman

mauve
12th May 2018, 16:51
Agree with most of the things you said, except:


I
- the 365 days until the next contest, because the wait is just too long

It's more like 270 days when the first songs are released. The monthes before an ESC are fantastic! :mrgreen:

And as for Wiwibloggs - Somehow I agree with what you said, but it's a kind of guilty pleasure to watch at them. :lol:

Realest
12th May 2018, 16:55
::au

GianlucaTomoe
12th May 2018, 17:01
The male singers

Quent91
12th May 2018, 17:02
- hosting in English: since the commentators talk over everything anyways, the hosts could as well just speak Portuguese, French or German

This. I feel like French is really being left away by the EBU, while it's the official language of this corporation and of the contest. Nowadays, the hosts just speak in French when it's about to present how the votes work. They even barely speak French when the countries are cited during the voting, now. I remember in 2008, Željko was a perfect host, speaking bot French and English, equally, and telling sentences only in French. This situation really changed when the nordic countries won the contest (Norway, Sweden and Denmark) in the last few years.

It's quite a pity because French is part of the soul of the contest and it must not change, in the name of globalization or whatever.

crashworld
12th May 2018, 17:10
I love Eurovision, but it could even better if the following things go away for good:


- producer's draw: a computer would make it more fair and exciting

- jurors who are affiliated with record labels, which have artists in the competition, equal bias and corruption


I agree on the first point. I feel that it's best left to the hands of artists literally to decide which position they should sing in the running order.
I feel that the argument that 4-5 songs in the similar genre perform alongside will make viewers bored is an excuse.
If a song is meant to qualify/win, they will do so no matter which position they perform in, so they need to prove us this fact.
If not, it is obvious that running order does impact a song's qualification/winning chances.

On the second point, never thought about this. But then one may argue that we should not have an artist from country B representing country A as this may result in political voting as viewers from country B will vote for country A just because the performer is from country B.

Quent91
12th May 2018, 17:14
Plus, I want to add : some years ago, the hosts had real French language lessons before the shows. I remember watching a video where the Azeri hosts learned French before the contest in Bakou.

I wonder if it's still like this, now.

Vektor
12th May 2018, 17:53
An international contest should always be in English. I HATE the Hungarian commentators, so I just turn the commentating off, but if the host were speaking in their native language I wouldn't understand a thing. Making more people dependent on their translators/commentators is not a good thing.

popavapeur
12th May 2018, 17:59
As a french native speaker I don't mind full english. I know there is some sort of tradition but a lot of people are watching the contest online now without commentators.

I don't want anything to go btw, I want MORE EUROVISION

BernadetteCydonia
12th May 2018, 18:05
The male singers

Just a reminder that you wouldn't have had Mihai Traistariu and Constantinos Christoforou on Eurovision stage if all men were removed from Eurovision history. Consider at least eating 5% of your words...

GermanBango
12th May 2018, 18:17
- all the countries that can hardly be called democracies and whose governments/regimes don't have problems with killing minorities
- people who call themselves fans but get really butthurt as soon as someone says something negative about their favorites and/or their own country's entry
- these cringe worthy greenroom interviews during the shows
- having more than two hosts
- Christer Björkman

lavieenrose
12th May 2018, 18:20
The male singers

YOU are in a thread entitled "things that need to go," wow

Franco
12th May 2018, 18:20
- The 3 minutes rule.
- The 6 people rule.


Some songs need special effects and pyros. Some songs need a bit more time. Some songs need a big chorus.
All of them should be allowed to bring out their best by the organization.
Currently, we have a system where you can have all the effects you want and more, but strictly no more time than 3 minutes, no more people on stage than 6.

We need to replace that with a points system, where each delegation is allowed a certain number of points to "buy" either special effects, or more time to perform, or more people on the stage, or some steps up or down in the running order, or some bonus on the scoreboard.

Himan
12th May 2018, 18:28
Well, I disagree on most points. I think the Swedish chef does a great job with making orders right and I don't believe a computer or draw can do that much better. I like wiwibloggs, it's not really my cup of tea, but disappear is a big word for someone who wants positivity. Better a good design from the past from Sweden, than a bad design, it costs money to do that, so you have to wait till we are in a rich country. German votes are stupid if it's true. Everyone is affiliated with something. Odds are there and are way better predictors than random apes, so it's good to report them, but you shouldn't take it to serious. If every day was festival, it wouldn't feel special, would it?

burrito
12th May 2018, 18:30
Also keep in mind that commentary is often a direct or semi-direct translation from talks in green room or with fans for example. If the host were speaking their own languages no commentator would know, let alone tv audience, what is said during the show.
As for the draw, it should be a random thing. Or at least all the songs should be divided in two categories (up-tempo and ballads, for example) and if producers decide that an uptempo song should be opening the contest, they should take a random song from up-tempo basket. If they decide that #21 should be a ballad, they reach for the ballad basket. And so on and so on, something like that.
All displays of love and affection, kisses ie. on the stage should be gone aswell imho. I write this thinking especially about ::es (it is just so uncorfortable to watch, almost like audience should not be there as things are going a lil bit too intimate :lol: ) But it may be an unpopular opinion.

And bring the rest of Europe to the contest!


- The 3 minutes rule.
- The 6 people rule.


also this, fully agree

MyHeartIsYours
12th May 2018, 18:47
Ideally 3 minute rule would be replaced with 4 minute one, but I'm not sure 3 minute rule is working that badly to warrant all the extra time that would be needed for 4 minute performances (meaning Eurovision would finish at at least midnight in the United Kingdom and 1am in France and Germany).

I agree that 6 people should be got rid of though... 10 seems a good amount.

And while the voting is using this current system, the country spokespersons should announce the televote and the hosts announced the combined jury vote, NOT the other way round as is currently the case.

popavapeur
12th May 2018, 18:59
And while the voting is using this current system, the country spokespersons should announce the televote and the hosts announced the combined jury vote, NOT the other way round as is currently the case.

that would be a disaster. showing the televote at the end make you believe you have a say, cause YOUR vote is making changes in the scoreboard, even if the 1st isn't the overall winner, you give it points too. Showing juries making changes in OUR votes will be like "why am I voting ? some juries somewhere can change everything". At the end it's the same ofc but the feeling at home is surely not the same.

DaFlo
12th May 2018, 19:13
Fans who bring politics up at every possible occasion.

Fluke
13th May 2018, 19:50
The silly, pointless and outdated prohibition of audible live instruments on stage. It came about in 1999 as a way to cut down the budgets at a time interest in the contest was at a low, and technology has improved very much since as well. If they can completely change the light rig from song to song, why not allow instruments that use just one microphone or a direct connection?

Alaska49
13th May 2018, 20:24
The male singers
honesty is a very respectable trait no matter how misguided it is

EBU NEEDS TO REMOVE:
-- christer bjorkman
-- the current concept of juries
-- producer running order
-- french language in hosting (nobody who doesn't speak french cares)
-- LED screens (don't even allow countries to bring their own - it encourages lazy staging)
-- if possible, odds (can EBU legally stop oddsmakers from creating eurovision bets? if they can, they should)

EBU NEEDS TO ADD:
-- more people on stage per country - up to 8 probably
-- live instrumentation
-- reading the 8 and 10 points again
-- a third semifinal

the 3 minute rule needs to stay, though, or else the grand final would go forever. countries with selections that allow longer songs such as italy and albania need to adapt better.

John1
13th May 2018, 23:10
honesty is a very respectable trait no matter how misguided it is

EBU NEEDS TO REMOVE:
-- christer bjorkman
-- the current concept of juries
-- producer running order
-- french language in hosting (nobody who doesn't speak french cares)
-- LCD screens (don't even allow countries to bring their own - it encourages lazy staging)
-- if possible, odds (can EBU legally stop oddsmakers from creating eurovision bets? if they can, they should)

EBU NEEDS TO ADD:
-- more people on stage per country - up to 8 probably
-- live instrumentation
-- reading the 8 and 10 points again
-- a third semifinal

the 3 minute rule needs to stay, though, or else the grand final would go forever. countries with selections that allow longer songs such as italy and albania need to adapt better.

Ermmm... French and English are both the official languages of the EBU.

MonkeyJaw
13th May 2018, 23:16
big 5

go through the semi like the rest of us

But UK would never qualify. And then we couldn't shit on them as much. :(

MyHeartIsYours
13th May 2018, 23:19
Ermmm... French and English are both the official languages of the EBU.
I would like there to be more French. In the old days (like 10 years ago) it felt as though there was a lot of French in the Contest but now it feels as though it is literally just douze points pour!

Himan
13th May 2018, 23:20
I want more Dutch in the contest! :D

MonkeyJaw
13th May 2018, 23:23
Ermmm... French and English are both the official languages of the EBU.
Yeah, but nobody outside of France gives a shit. Which admittedly houses 67 million people.


We need to replace that with a points system, where each delegation is allowed a certain number of points to "buy" either special effects, or more time to perform, or more people on the stage, or some steps up or down in the running order, or some bonus on the scoreboard.
This would be really interesting. At first I thought "no way, then every country would have 5 minutes songs", but then you introduced the points idea and I'm intrigued. Except that I wholly disagree with them being able to tamper with the scoreboard. That would be stupid. :lol:


The silly, pointless and outdated prohibition of audible live instruments on stage. It came about in 1999 as a way to cut down the budgets at a time interest in the contest was at a low, and technology has improved very much since as well. If they can completely change the light rig from song to song, why not allow instruments that use just one microphone or a direct connection?
yes yes yes yes YES YES yes yes yes

John1
13th May 2018, 23:29
Yeah, but nobody outside of France gives a shit. Which admittedly houses 67 million people.

You should be much more open-minded in regards to these viewers, who are keen on learning French or another language at the ESC. Nobody gives a f*** shit either about Hungarian and Albanian, though some songs have been sung in these languages over the past few years.

What's the issue here? I can't figure out your rationale here.

MonkeyJaw
13th May 2018, 23:39
I'm just telling you how it is, dude. We don't want to hear French in the competition. It's an arbitrary rule from an old, forgotten rulebook.
No one who is trying to learn French uses Eurovision as a teaching tool. Lol.

Although I want some part of it, it's not quite Eurovision unless the hosts shout out "Douze points".

anto475
14th May 2018, 00:01
I love Eurovision, but it could even better if the following things go away for good:


- producer's draw: a computer would make it more fair and exciting

- Christer Björkman: one who is obsessed with his own country's success, should produce the national final at best and nothing more to say in the actual Eurovision

- wiwibloggs: they are overly dramatic, are too personal with the acts that it becomes cringeworthy to watch, are ripping off the music for their own profit by selling t-shirts and still are entitled to completely rip an act they are cozying up with

- hosting in English: since the commentators talk over everything anyways, the hosts could as well just speak Portuguese, French or German

- the overall design and scoreboard: the layout and colour schemes are boring and depressing, I want different fonts, different colours and a fresh new scoreboard every year, that hasn't changed since 2016

- the German jury, they all vote the same, they could just have one person be the juror

- jurors who are affiliated with record labels, which have artists in the competition, equal bias and corruption

- reporting based on odds: Odds are a big thing in the UK, maybe Spain and other smaller Western European countries. They don't tell anything much about how the majority of Europe is impressed or not, and yet every hype is based on odds

- the negativity: some Eurofans only have bad things to say about most of the other countries except their own

- the 365 days until the next contest, because the wait is just too long

Hi, I hate to sound like that Finnish woman because she's annoying as hell, but Marry Me?

Also we should get rid of excessive props on the stage, the only announcing of 12 points, Nicky Byrne, the green room in the middle of the arena, and we should mandate for subtitles for every song in the language of the broadcaster.

Sherlock
14th May 2018, 00:13
I hated the Wiwibloggs-reaction-video, where this fat guy is pissed because AUT received so much jury votes. I think they are all drama-queens.

Alaska49
14th May 2018, 00:36
You should be much more open-minded in regards to these viewers, who are keen on learning French or another language at the ESC. Nobody gives a f*** shit either about Hungarian and Albanian, though some songs have been sung in these languages over the past few years.

What's the issue here? I can't figure out your rationale here.i certainly do not want the contest to be HOSTED in hungarian, albanian or anything that isn't our current lingua franca. it has nothing to do with the sings, that i do want to have as many languages as possible. hosting in more than one language, when mostly people will understand english more easily than another language they do not speak, is just wasting program time.

MyHeartIsYours
14th May 2018, 00:47
Some changes I want...

Voting:
- Voting to be split 40% (national televotes) vs 30% (European televote) vs 30% (European jury).
- Inclusion of 9 and 11 points for the national televotes.
- All countries get points from every country's national televote, the top 3 are the only ones to get 10, 11 and 12 points, but the lower points are each shared out between multiple countries.
- European jury should be in the stadium and make their judgement based on the final performance.
- European jury votes are read out first which are given out as the televotes are now. Then the national televotes take place, spokespersons read out 10, 11 and 12 points. Then the European televotes are read out as the televotes are given out now.

Other:
- Move SF1 to Monday and SF2 to Wednesday.
- On Thursday the running order for the Grand Final should be decided, the host country/winner picks its position, then a draw between the Big 5 letting them pick their positions, then a draw between the Semi Final qualifiers letting pick their positions from the remaining places.
- Prequalifiers should perform in the Semi Finals during the voting instead of interval acts.
- Allow 10 performers on stage.
- Move the Contest to summer.

mgru
14th May 2018, 00:48
Yeah having french here n there is useless.

Having subtitles for the songs in national language is a great idea.

QwaarJet
14th May 2018, 07:49
1. Bring back the random draw, or remove the drawing of halves. This middle ground solution doesn't work.
2. Jury votes must have more rigours inspection. Albania giving their top positions to the 2 songs that just happened to have Albanian singers, and Armenia and Azerbaijan continually giving each other last place cannot be allowed to happen any more.
3. Big 5 should have to qualify from the semi-finals. If their entry is good enough to qualify, it will give them more exposure (France, Germany, Italy). If it isn't, then it won't taking a spot from a more deserving entry (UK, Spain).
4. Built-in LED screen and floor should be mandatory for each host for the foreseeable future.

Chorizo
14th May 2018, 09:28
Plus, I want to add : some years ago, the hosts had real French language lessons before the shows. I remember watching a video where the Azeri hosts learned French before the contest in Bakou.

I wonder if it's still like this, now.

This year, when telling the audience that you cannot vote for your own country, they changed "votre propre pays" to "votre pays". Another French word gone... :o
I wonder what prompted that change. That really surprised me because this phrase has been the same for many years.

I can understand that French speakers and also some Eurovision fans want to keep French but it really doesn't serve any practical purpose anymore. In 1956, French was more important than English in the participating countries and it remained important for a long time but today, only few people speak French while most people speak English. Those who don't speak English, usually don't speak French either. The only ones who seem to struggle with English on a regular basis are the contestants from the former USSR, who only speak their local languages and Russian. It's probably similar among the viewers. In countries like Italy, older people might speak French more often than English but for younger people things are different now. Nobody would want to go back to the days, when the hosts repeated everything they said in French anyway and even the French speak English now. I think the French broadcaster understood that insisting on speaking French when everyone else speaks English doesn't make a good impression. The French spokespersons really seem friendlier these days since they have started to mix some French and English. I think this feels much more like they are actually addressing the international audience of Eurovision instead of just announcing their points to the host.

LalehForWD
14th May 2018, 09:39
I disagree with everything said so far

mauve
14th May 2018, 09:58
I disagree with everything said so far

*lol* How creative.

blue00eyes
14th May 2018, 10:22
Camera shots at freaks in the audience need to go asap

LalehForWD
14th May 2018, 10:34
*lol* How creative.

Well actually it is, and this time I mean it ;);)

Any thread that specifies the name "Christer Björkman" is suspicious. Christer Björkman is not a public person, at least not outside Sweden. He has no official position, power or another platform of influence. He is not a figure like Trump who from a position of power feeds from attention and deliberately seeking controversy. It's apparent the Eurovision "fans" that criticise Christer Björkman have a very little clue of who he is or what he does. He's simply a symbol of hate to them. I find it sick and weird, even in a context of toxic internet "free speech", if you fancy that. To blame others, having scapegoats instead of discussing real issues is simply disgusting.

mauve
14th May 2018, 10:40
Well actually it is, and this time I mean it ;);)

Any thread that specifies the name "Christer Björkman" is suspicious. Christer Björkman is not a public person, at least not outside Sweden. He has no official position, power or another platform of influence. He is not a figure like Trump who from a position of power feeds from attention and deliberately seeking controversy. It's apparent the Eurovision "fans" that criticise Christer Björkman have a very little clue of who he is or what he does. He's simply a symbol of hate to them. I find it sick and weird, even in a context of toxic internet "free speech", if you fancy that. To blame others, having scapegoats instead of discussing real issues is simple disgusting.

Ah, you meant it that way. I can't and don't want to say much about Björkman because I know too little about him. But this thread is not only about him and I thought your answer was related to all aspects. :lol:

mauve
14th May 2018, 10:40
Well actually it is, and this time I mean it ;);)

Any thread that specifies the name "Christer Björkman" is suspicious. Christer Björkman is not a public person, at least not outside Sweden. He has no official position, power or another platform of influence. He is not a figure like Trump who from a position of power feeds from attention and deliberately seeking controversy. It's apparent the Eurovision "fans" that criticise Christer Björkman have a very little clue of who he is or what he does. He's simply a symbol of hate to them. I find it sick and weird, even in a context of toxic internet "free speech", if you fancy that. To blame others, having scapegoats instead of discussing real issues is simple disgusting.

Ah, you meant it that way. I can't and don't want to say much about Björkman because I know too little about him. But this thread is not only about him and I thought your answer was related to all aspects. :lol:

LalehForWD
14th May 2018, 10:41
Ah, you meant it that way. I can't and don't want to say much about Björkman because I know too little about him. But this thread is not only about him and I thought your answer was related to all aspects. :lol:

I know

Storm
14th May 2018, 11:09
The only change I want is the Big5 to perform as interval acts during the semis instead these cringe "comedy" clips

MonkeyJaw
14th May 2018, 12:04
Christer Björkman is not a public person, at least not outside Sweden. He has no official position, power or another platform of influence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHaXCYoDXzk
Must be a lookalike.

LalehForWD
14th May 2018, 12:16
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHaXCYoDXzk
Must be a lookalike.

But here he's of course NOT acting like the private person Christer Björkman! He is employed, acting on orders from the employer and according to the rules of the competition. Do you think he is in Lisbon on his own mission? For fun? Because he is an evil genius? If you have any issues or complaints of his work, ask the Portuguese broadcaster. Sorry, but that's how the dull reality looks like.

Alaska49
14th May 2018, 15:02
4. Built-in LED screen and floor should be mandatory for each host for the foreseeable future. NEVERRRRRRR

led screens made staging repetitive and lazy last year and this year was such an improvement. it absolutely NEEDS to stay this way.


also i love the backtracking in this page of "christer bjorkman has no official position, power or influence" to "christer bjorkman is just doing the work he was hired for". really compelling argument. ebu and/or the hosting channel of the year needs to stop hiring christer bjorkman for anything.

DaFlo
14th May 2018, 15:35
Following expressions are banned for 2019 season

"Diaspora-adjusted"
"No hate, but"
"In table midfield diaspora is way more important"

Realest
14th May 2018, 15:46
Following expressions are banned for 2019 season

"Diaspora-adjusted"
"No hate, but"
"In table midfield diaspora is way more important"

No, as long as cluesless Persons like you or the Brasilian Troll exist, these Expressions need to stay.

DaFlo
14th May 2018, 16:05
No, as long as cluesless Persons like you or the Brasilian Troll exist, these Expressions need to stay.

No hate, but how old are you

wtf
14th May 2018, 16:31
Agree about the draw. I'd also change the amount of juries. 5 people making up 50% of the votes is a bit too random! Change it to at least 10.

Alaska49
14th May 2018, 16:45
i am not adding "Brasilian Troll" to my sig btw. "Troll" is there and the flag is on the side. redundant. please find me more creative titles.

QwaarJet
15th May 2018, 11:55
NEVERRRRRRR

led screens made staging repetitive and lazy last year and this year was such an improvement. it absolutely NEEDS to stay this way.


also i love the backtracking in this page of "christer bjorkman has no official position, power or influence" to "christer bjorkman is just doing the work he was hired for". really compelling argument. ebu and/or the hosting channel of the year needs to stop hiring christer bjorkman for anything.

Staging awful, boring and repetitive this year. Too many performances looked the same. Regardless, I fully expect the LED screens back next year anyway.

Alaska49
15th May 2018, 15:46
Staging awful, boring and repetitive this year. Too many performances looked the same.as opposed to last year when the most common staging choice was the singer's own face on a screen? do we even watch the same show??

midnightsun
15th May 2018, 15:50
I have to say, even if I loved this year's stage and probably prefer to LED I guess it's better to return to LED because not every country has the possibility (=money) to bring a lot of props to the stage, including their own LED screen. So let's just return to LED.

musicfan
15th May 2018, 23:08
The only change I want is the Big5 to perform as interval acts during the semis instead these cringe "comedy" clips

The problem with the comedy stuff comes from when people started approaching Eurovision as some kind of camp comedy and this directly affected the presentation and the presenters. There used to actually be just one presenter, with several they increase the stilted dialogue between them.

In the final there should be a section where they show those songs that didn't qualify, because many don't even watch the semis.

Nobody's probably mentioned it, but stage security after three breaches in the last decade should actually be taken of. Though next year security in general will be a problem as they are heading to a war zone, Netta not helping saying it will be held in Jerusalem.

And I agree that producer involvement in the running order was too much.

There's always the question of what exactly is the point of juries too.

Guilep
16th May 2018, 05:14
Bjorkman

Gitte
16th May 2018, 14:12
Countries that are constantly bombing people but win and get to organize the contest on what's basically a battlefield.The song they won with was good at least.

FilipFromSweden
16th May 2018, 15:19
- Christer Björkman: one who is obsessed with his own country's success, should produce the national final at best and nothing more to say in the actual Eurovision


Please tell me how Christer did anything to help Sweden get a good score this year. Benjamin drawed the 2nd half ticket himself, 14-16 is basically the only ones that would've been worse. But whatever, you are all blind of hatred towards Christer who lives, loves and breathes Eurovision and has an experience in similar events which is why he got the job.

Alaska49
16th May 2018, 17:02
people are not phrasing it well, so i will do it again: i am sure christer bjorkman isn't a devious mastermind but it is clear he is no longer doing a proper job in eurovision and shouldn't get this job anymore. it's not a problem with him personally but eurovision needs this change.

FilipFromSweden
16th May 2018, 17:48
people are not phrasing it well, so i will do it again: i am sure christer bjorkman isn't a devious mastermind but it is clear he is no longer doing a proper job in eurovision and shouldn't get this job anymore. it's not a problem with him personally but eurovision needs this change.

Surely one who has worked for SVT/Sweden shouldn’t set a running-order, but to be fair he probably does tons of behind-the-scenes work

lavieenrose
16th May 2018, 19:00
christer bjorkman isn't a devious mastermind

https://78.media.tumblr.com/e32db32cb2d39fc865c911a75dab60f7/tumblr_inline_opvhobAy4Q1tu8bes_540.gif

Neo
20th May 2018, 16:34
-- the current concept of juries
-- producer running order
-- french language in hosting (nobody who doesn't speak french cares)
-- if possible, odds (can EBU legally stop oddsmakers from creating eurovision bets? if they can, they should)

This, just adjust to no juries and add the top 5 pre-qualified.

tuorem
20th May 2018, 19:27
Camera shots at freaks in the audience need to go asap

In other words: no camera shots of the audience :lol:

Alaska49
20th May 2018, 20:15
i mean, audience shots are not something ebu needs to FORBID lol, but these channels need to seriously realize that, unless it's a moment like the ending of mercy or the stage dive in viszlat nyar, showing the audience over your act breaks performance momentum for the public and is just a huge disservice to the act. ever year the top ranked songs either have very little audience shots or show the audience actually engaging the camera like in toy. the writing is on the wall and always has been.

Ezio
20th May 2018, 23:57
"Heroes" needs to go, whenever I have ESC 2018 on Autoplay on youtube. After 5 songs always comes Heroes. So sneaky!!

LesterMalvo
21st May 2018, 00:54
I don't get the point with english language though? Many people in Europe or overall the audience more commonly speak English rather than French, German, Portuguese or any other one. Why would the hosts speak in a language that less people speak? If anything, I would get rid of French language for good because we don't really need it at all. All the TV commentators explain important stuff anyway.

LalehForWD
21st May 2018, 12:54
https://www.svtstatic.se/image-cms/svtse/1432473588/kultur/musik/article2959441.svt/alternates/extralarge/christer-jpg
The ultimate master xbowxbowxbow

Unfortunately, he will soon be gone and we'll have to settle with the ones lurking in the shadows
https://g3.nh.ee/images/pix/jarmo-siim-71726193.jpg

A-lister
21st May 2018, 19:03
- The running order chosen by the producers NEED to go! There are ways to make a diverse running order (genre/tempo pots for instance) yet use a random draw to determine it. It never was, isn't and never will be a fair and transparent solution.

- Spokesperson ONLY announcing the 12pts now is just too fast and boring, although I agree with the current voting system of dividing the public and juries, it takes away the suspense and I think they could at least go back to the system when the spokesperson announced the top. 3.

- I think allowing more people on stage should be allowed, of course it shouldn't be compulsory, but the option should be there. I think they could at least allow 8 people instead of 6 like now, it would make a difference if the entry is for instance a high energy one with dancers included.

- The juries NEED to go if they will continue punish entries that are daring, different and/-or native/ethnic. We see way too often how safe they are in their choices and it's really hurting the contest, the musical diversity and its purpose.

Gabe
21st May 2018, 20:47
big 5

go through the semi like the rest of us

The Big 5 pay 50% of the total participation fees so that it's financially viable for small countries to participate in the contest. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Realest
21st May 2018, 21:05
Diaspora-Voting must be forbidden, because right now Countries like Serbia and Russia have unfair advantages over Austria and Switzerland.

Ezio
21st May 2018, 21:08
Diaspora-Voting must be forbidden, because right now Countries like Serbia and Russia have unfair advantages over Austria and Switzerland.

The points for Serbia this year are a bad joke indeed. Mostly voted on last place everywhere, except for a few countries that are their neighbours or have their diaspora.

DaFlo
21st May 2018, 21:42
Non Diaspora voting must be forbidden. In fact full jury results is the way to go. #real #est #since2002

AshleyWright
21st May 2018, 21:46
Non Diaspora voting must be forbidden. In fact full jury results is the way to go. #real #est #since2002

Better yet, elimate the jury as well and just let me hand pick the winner each year.

DaFlo
21st May 2018, 21:49
Better yet, elimate the jury as well and just let me hand pick the winner each year.

I love this.

All problems solved. Ashley replacing Björkman & Sand. 🙌

/thread

lolita
21st May 2018, 22:55
The points for Serbia this year are a bad joke indeed. Mostly voted on last place everywhere, except for a few countries that are their neighbours or have their diaspora.

That is why we have juries! :)

EscGeek
22nd May 2018, 06:06
The Big 5 pay 50% of the total participation fees so that it's financially viable for small countries to participate in the contest. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

i know, but this is a fantasy thread;)

LalehForWD
22nd May 2018, 07:43
The Big 5 pay 50% of the total participation fees so that it's financially viable for small countries to participate in the contest. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

No, you're wrong. Eurovision is financed by the host country, with a small contribution of 5-10% from the EBU. All countries pay for their own costs for participating (what else?). If you don't believe me, just look up BBCs budget and you will see it's consistently lies around 2-300000 euros/year for Eurovision, just enough to produce the UKs own contribution. If anyone know figures about rebates or financial support to poor countries, please post them. My guess is the 5-10% contribution from the EBU is in fact the sum of the participation fees, which could vary from country to country.

edit, see for example:
https://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/entreprise/organiser-l-eurovision-un-gouffre-financier-888871.html
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/13/how-much-does-it-cost-eurovision-song-contest-and-is-it-worth-it/

Gabe
22nd May 2018, 14:02
LalehForWD From the figures I've seen (I need to find a source for these again though), Ireland pays approximately 60,000 Euros per year. The BBC, for example, pays upwards of 250,000 pounds.

LalehForWD
22nd May 2018, 14:53
LalehForWD From the figures I've seen (I need to find a source for these again though), Ireland pays approximately 60,000 Euros per year. The BBC, for example, pays upwards of 250,000 pounds.

Makes sense. Imagine you need to pay songwriters, studio time, producers, travel and living expenses for the esc team etc. £250000 will not allow much extravaganza. How the Irish manage with 60000 euros is beyond me. The Swedish SVT ESC team is usually around 20 people whos salary, travel, hotel and living expenses must be covered for 2 weeks. I've never seen any figures and even if the record label is covering for probably a large part, £250000 will surely not be enough. I saw Engelbert's budget back in 2012 and I came to the conclusion he must have payed his own hotel bill and to have at least a little high life while he was in Baku must have been on his own expense. As a kind of vacation more than on a job. :D

edit:
Unless you mean these are participation fees? In that case, I agree it seems weird the fees are different depening on country. Either way, it's peanuts compared to the real costs of Eurovision. Why no journalist has made an investigation into these figures is strange, but maybe it's impossible to get reliable figures.

midnightsun
22nd May 2018, 15:20
https://www.eurovision.de/news/Was-kostet-der-ESC-die-Teilnehmerlaender,gebuehren110.html

In this arcticle you can read everything about the costs of Eurovision (sorry, it's in German), how they are splitted, for what they are, which country has to pay for what and why etc.

There are some examples of the payed fees in there.


Beispiele ESC-Teilnahmegebühren
Land Teilnahmegebühren an die EBU
Niederlande (2016) 250.000 Euro
Deutschland (2015) 363.500 Euro
Deutschland (2017) 380.000 Euro
Spanien (2015) 356.000 Euro
Rumänien (2014) 130.000 Euro
Irland (2013) 70.000 Euro
Griechenland (2012) 120.000 Euro
Montenegro (2012) 23.000 Euro
Malta (2010) 80.000 Euro


Another article (also German) about the costs. Host country pays the highest fees (much more than any other country).

https://www.t-online.de/unterhaltung/eurovision-song-contest/id_46405590/eurovision-song-contest-so-viel-kostet-der-grand-prix-die-tv-zuschauer.html

Almost identical content:
https://www.wunschliste.de/tvnews/m/ard-beziffert-esc-kosten-auf-zwoelf-millionen-euro

LalehForWD
22nd May 2018, 16:46
midnightsun

Thanks. The fees mentioned in the eurovision.de is summed to 5 million euro which is more than I remember when looking into this for 2012/2013 Malmö. There were a lot of discussions about minimising the costs and official documents were published/leaked. I can't find anything of it today. Either it is only a part of the whole sum of the fees that is transferred to the host broadcaster or the fees have increased in recent years. In my memory, I have the figure 1.5 million euro as the contribution from EBU to SVT in Malmö. The total budget was 25-30 million euro including city services. Anyway, the fees indeed seem to have something todo with the EBU contribution. Perhaps is the fee sum the total EBU Eurovision budget?

Lindon
22nd May 2018, 20:52
The costs of 1 minute ESC = 791 Euros vs. 1 minute Eurocup football = 21600 Euros is pretty impressive. ESC is rather cheap in comparison, especially for the Big 5. I didn't thought about it that way before. For the starting fees of 380.000 Euros for Germany, the ARD could never produce any other Saturday Prime time show by that "little" amount of money. The only looser is the winner who has to host the thing.

henhu
22nd May 2018, 21:22
Christer Björkman leaving is my #1 wish. I hope Israel can get rid of him xpray

Gabe
22nd May 2018, 23:05
Makes sense. Imagine you need to pay songwriters, studio time, producers, travel and living expenses for the esc team etc. £250000 will not allow much extravaganza. How the Irish manage with 60000 euros is beyond me. The Swedish SVT ESC team is usually around 20 people whos salary, travel, hotel and living expenses must be covered for 2 weeks. I've never seen any figures and even if the record label is covering for probably a large part, £250000 will surely not be enough. I saw Engelbert's budget back in 2012 and I came to the conclusion he must have payed his own hotel bill and to have at least a little high life while he was in Baku must have been on his own expense. As a kind of vacation more than on a job. :D

edit:
Unless you mean these are participation fees? In that case, I agree it seems weird the fees are different depening on country. Either way, it's peanuts compared to the real costs of Eurovision. Why no journalist has made an investigation into these figures is strange, but maybe it's impossible to get reliable figures.

Yes, different countries pay different amounts for participation; it's varied for every single country, but one thing that is clear is that the Big 5 pay *considerably* more than everyone else, which keeps everyone else's fees down - making it more feasible for less wealthy countries and broadcasters to participate.

LalehForWD
23rd May 2018, 00:32
Yes, different countries pay different amounts for participation; it's varied for every single country, but one thing that is clear is that the Big 5 pay *considerably* more than everyone else, which keeps everyone else's fees down - making it more feasible for less wealthy countries and broadcasters to participate.

OK, you're right. The UK pays a higher fee than Ireland, BUT that fee doesn't even cover 1% of the total cost of Eurovision. If you look at the table midnightsun posted referencing the excellent article, some of the fees are listed. So even if the fee-sum would be crucial for the contest (which it obviously isn't), one could wonder why Holland isn't among the big 5, just saying. :D

midnightsun
23rd May 2018, 14:52
For the starting fees of 380.000 Euros for Germany, the ARD could never produce any other Saturday Prime time show by that "little" amount of money.

True. That was also mentioned in the article. That's why I wrote last (?) year I think that it makes no sense for Germany to withdraw. Eurovision is the most watched show on TV on the Eurovision day but costs much less than any other big prime time show. Win-win for the ARD.

There is a joke in one of the articles:


"Deutschland richtet erst zum dritten Mal dieses Riesen-Event aus, 52 mal haben die deutschen Fernsehzuschauer von den finanziellen Anstrengungen der anderen Gastgeber-Länder profitiert; ich finde, da müssen wir nach dem großartigen Sieg von Lena im letzten Jahr auch unsere Verantwortung annehmen und in diesem Jahr gerne Gastgeber sein - so sind nun mal die Regeln. Das ist nur fair den anderen gegenüber. Was sollen die Iren sagen - die haben bereits 7 mal gewonnen!"
Ist ja eigentlich wie in der Kneipe: Irgendwann zahlt jeder mal die nächste Runde.

Germany is hosting this big event for the thrid time - German television viewers have benefited 52 times from the funding efforts of the other host countries; I think that after last year's big victory for Lena, we should also take our responsibility and be happy being the host this year. That's only fair to others. What should the Irish say - they have already won 7 times! "
It's actually like in the pub: At some point, everyone buys a round (of drinks).

This. ;)

EscTurkey
10th June 2018, 12:36
Russiaphobes & conspiracy theories about Russia at eurovision.

Preuss
10th June 2018, 19:59
The perception that Sweden and Australia get points because they are Sweden and Australia lol

The perception that countries are not doing well because they're representing the country they do
no bro, if you actually send an entry with the "package", you'll do well regardless of which country you're representing

lolita
10th June 2018, 20:13
The perception that Sweden and Australia get points because they are Sweden and Australia lol

The perception that countries are not doing well because they're representing the country they do
no bro, if you actually send an entry with the "package", you'll do well regardless of which country you're representing

Ooooh, finally someone unbiased here! Preach! :D

Himan
10th June 2018, 20:52
Not knowing the fact that everyone is always biased. :twisted:

lolita
10th June 2018, 20:57
Not knowing the fact that everyone is always biased. :twisted:

Well, for sure not everyone, but almost half of the people, yes, for sure! :D But that doesn't bother me so much anymore, it is more their problem, than mine, they are the ones who get upset about every single detail and thing when it comes to Eurovision. I am just watching and listening patiently, having fun and occasionaly LMAO, when I see things and behavior like that. :twisted:

Himan
10th June 2018, 21:10
Well actually, you always have a framework where you live in. This is for me directly the bias. Countries with more neighbors willing to vote for them are more lucky. But Russia is a bigger country and has therefor more neighbors. Just like Serbia for example. But The Netherlands also gets all the points from Belgium. ;) Though we only have 1 good neighbor and 20 good neighbors if our song is really good.(Like in 2014)

lolita
10th June 2018, 21:19
Yes, it is somehow like that, but I really wouldn't like to my country do well just because of the televote, if the song is not good enough. But we were out of final everytime we had weaker song, so I feel like justice is always here. Same for all the countries, but I am always content with the results in the previous years-simply-the songs that were really bad and trash would be always out of final (in my opinion, it happened that I always agree with the public or juries, somehow, rare example in the fandom :lol:), and solid, decent, and amazing songs overall, were always in the final at least, and for me, final placement is not so important, if the song is not a winner, and there is only one winner, so there is no place for despair and hatred here. When the contest is finished, every year, I am starting to look forward for the next year. So that is the reason I am not biased with the success of my country and of my favorites, too. :D

anto475
10th June 2018, 22:12
I'd like to see hidden backing singers go in 2019. All singers should be on the stage, now they're hiding behind the stage?

Lindon
10th June 2018, 23:57
I'd like to see hidden backing singers go in 2019. All singers should be on the stage, now they're hiding behind the stage?

I saw somewhere a short clip of an ESC performance where obviously a background singer in the rear of the stage sang the difficult parts while the singer in front seemed only to lip sync. Can somebody recall that incident and say what act that was?

RomanFromRussia
13th July 2018, 14:56
I saw somewhere a short clip of an ESC performance where obviously a background singer in the rear of the stage sang the difficult parts while the singer in front seemed only to lip sync. Can somebody recall that incident and say what act that was?

Estonia 2014, Russia 2018...?

SpZ
13th July 2018, 18:30
Maybe it was Hadise suddenly having male vocals?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwFkWsr9yV4

Lindon
13th July 2018, 18:48
Estonia 2014, Russia 2018...?

I found it. It was in this documentary approximately at 80:35


https://youtu.be/8eLUANkvN6s

Realest
13th July 2018, 19:14
I found it. It was in this documentary approximately at 80:35


https://youtu.be/8eLUANkvN6s

::ro 2009?

Lindon
14th July 2018, 14:42
::ro 2009?

Elena Gheorghe "The Balkan Girls". Hard to say. If she was cheating it was done very skillfully.


https://youtu.be/2uf7trjAj20

Realest
29th July 2018, 00:28
Swedophobes & Conspiracies about Sweden at Eurovision

Preuss
29th July 2018, 09:00
Swedophobes & Conspiracies about Sweden at Eurovision

Definitely

BernadetteCydonia
29th July 2018, 18:00
I'd like to see hidden backing singers go in 2019. All singers should be on the stage, now they're hiding behind the stage?

amen

blue00eyes
7th August 2018, 13:39
... post-eurovision points and voting system nerd analyses tbh :lol:

Realest
7th August 2018, 18:50
... post-eurovision points and voting system nerd analyses tbh :lol:

Oh no, thats my favouritepart during PED :D

VikingTiger
7th August 2018, 22:15
Swedophobes & Conspiracies about Sweden at Eurovision

....and all the other conspiracy theories...Which flourish vividly in this site.

Charly
13th August 2018, 17:09
Things that need to go?


Christer Björkman

midnightsun
14th August 2018, 02:04
....and all the other conspiracy theories...Which flourish vividly in this site.

Yeah, sorry, but you know... silly season ;)

Hope it's February soon to get some Eurovision fodder again.

Pawhlen
16th August 2018, 02:01
Has anyone in here argumented why they hate Björkman so much? (with that I mean a little bit more than "he is bad" and so on)

I really want to see someone back up their thoughts with more thoughts than just oneliners

midnightsun
16th August 2018, 02:13
In my opinion (just my personal opinion) Björkman tries to covert Eurovision into some kind of Saturday Night music tv show, where all that matters is a great production and good viewing figures, thus the constant change to "improve" things. When he started he introduced the determination of the running order, something that I still find very unfair. Also, but that's just my personal opinion, I have a feeling that he tries to hone some songs/countries as winners, trying to push them as far as possible by doing them some favors, like e.g. the said running order. So if you are a top favourite in the betting odds you get pampered by Björkman because he sees the potential "star of the evening" in you. Other countries don't have a chance. But weren't the viewing figures better before Björkman? I think so. So why determing the running order when people would watch it anyway, no matter if there are two ballads following each other or two rock songs... I don't think this is boring. I also have a feeling he's influencing other countries' juries, but I have no proof, that's just my feeling.

hrcgfd
17th August 2018, 17:17
Televoting in countries such as Montenegro, Albania, Moldova, San Marino... it's just unfair random that makes me cry, how long it will be equal to points from countries with high ratings?

Realest
17th August 2018, 17:19
If Germany had more Votingpower, Germany would be disadvantaged. So everyone must have the Same Votingpower.

Preuss
17th August 2018, 20:26
Yes, obviously a 12 from Germany and a 12 from Albania should count the same, or it wouldn't be Eurovision really!

Just curious though how the hell San Marino figures out their top 12 in televote??

AlekS
17th August 2018, 20:44
Televoting in countries such as Montenegro, Albania, Moldova, San Marino... it's just unfair random that makes me cry, how long it will be equal to points from countries with high ratings?
Forever. Every family member matters & nobody should be discriminated by their size. If you ruin the idea of inclusion you'll get your own shit thrown back at ya immediately .

Himan
17th August 2018, 22:32
Me go to San Marino. Me vote for Azarbaijan. :D

Says every conspiracist ever

tuorem
17th August 2018, 23:18
Forever. Every family member matters & nobody should be discriminated by their size. If you ruin the idea of inclusion you'll get your own shit thrown back at ya immediately .

It reminds me of the European Parliament where countries are given a number of seats according to how big their population is... :? And anyone can see it doesn't work :lol: so hopefully this isn't an idea that will ever apply to Eurovision.

midnightsun
18th August 2018, 00:33
Me go to San Marino. Me vote for Azarbaijan. :D

Says every conspiracist ever

I agree there went some things terribly wrong concerning Azerbaijan. But one twelvie of San Marino doesn't change anything, except it is really a good song from Azerbaijan and some other countries would vote for it anyway. It just matters if Azerbaijan goes to MANY countries and hands out some mobile phones to... well, don't talk about that. :mrgreen:

Realest
20th September 2018, 23:48
Björkman is a good guy.He did much to improve Eurovision and we should appreciate this. Can someone bring serious Arguments against him please?

And btw. 96/210 (45.71%) of all international, professional Jurymembers had Benjamin in their Top5 and now tell everyone how Björkman bribed every single of them.

midnightsun
24th September 2018, 12:13
I'm sure he is a "good guy", why should he be a bad guy? Even if he is a nice person in private, I don't like his way he and his team forces themselves through Eurovision. At this point I even don't trust Ola Sand, who I respected a lot in the past. but I don't think that he will do the content that much good it needs. Anyway. Not sure if changing the leading powers would change anything in Eurovision, because corruptibillity even happened much earlier and will ever.

(https://eurovisiontimes.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/eurovision-through-the-years-1997/


Italy had not participated since 1993 and apparently RAI had only accidentally applied in 1997. In order not to have to pay a fine, they sent the winner of the San-Remo festival of that year: The duo Jalisse, made up of the charismatic Alessandra Drusian and Fabio Ricci. ... Rumor has it, that RAI contacted several foreign juries to make sure the song would not win the contest.

->bribery always possible !)


Maybe I was just blind in the past, thinking Eurovision is "real" and "authentic" and sure, it's not scripted like Pop Idol or The Voice or X-Factor but in the past years - escpecially since Björkman entered the stage - there is a clear trend to push pre-contest favourites. And that is something I find really unfair. It's called "influencing".

Also, the introduction of the new juries went wrong in 2013 (Björkman's year, again!) when all juries suddenly voted a lot more odd-friendly than before. Criteria of voting doesn't seem to be existent for jury members any more although it's in the rules.

(Yeah, Realest, I know, not every single point is exactly given by the juries that way but there is a tendency)


By the way, the reason I'm commenting another time on this threas is because I stumbled upon an article by chance which proves that the odds results had a lot of similarities to the actually voting SINCE 2013 !!! The article is dated up to 2016 only, but if you include recent years (I'm sure, Realest is now calculating ;-)) this proves it even more.
And who is responsible for this? The juries! Because people voted a lot more differently the past years - not as odd-friendly as the juries.

https://www.escxtra.com/2017/03/16/analysing-ten-years-eurovision-odds-good-imperfect-indicator/


Odds are becoming increasingly more accurate indicators
Overall, this tells us that over the past ten years, odds-to-win have become increasingly reliable at predicting which countries will finish inside the top 15. This is shown by the green trend line trending upwards over the decade

https://abload.de/img/odds3fe4q.jpg


------------------------

So what has to go?

The odds would be the best. But it won't happen, so what must go next are juries who don't stick by their own rules but only vote for odds-friendly songs! If they go for real criteria juries can stay as I think they are important. it's good that we don't have telephone voting only anymore.


---------------------------

Concerning Sweden: since 2013 Sweden has always gotten more points from juries than from televote (apart from 2016). Even for rather bad songs. So explain this to me. This happened, by the way, when Björkman got involved! ;-)

Sweden Jury voting | Public voting
2013 3 | 18
2014 2 | 4
2015 1 | 3
2016 6 | 9
2017 3 | 8
2018 2 | 23

Realest
24th September 2018, 12:51
Well, there is a correlation between Songquality and Bettingodds. Good songs are tendencially higher in the odds and bad songs tendencially lower. It is surely no coincidence that f.e. Cyprus and Israel are high in the odds and Slovenia and Portugal lower. So you cant say that the Juries were wrong by voting those Countries like they did this year f.e.
Also we should not forget that the Juryvoting is the Sum of 215 (mostly) individual Votes. And if you take a look at a few Juryvotes you see that nearly every single Jurymember has a few high bet songs in his Top10, a few medium bet songs and a few low bet songs in his Top10. E.G. Max Giesinger had ::lt ::cy :: ::ie from the high bet Songs, ::au and ::ee from the medium bet Songs and ::nl ::ua ::at from the low bet songs. The Reason why the Juries are somehow near to the odds are because Songs like ::cy and ::il are more often voted by the individual Jurymembers. But Noone from the 215 knows how the 214 other Jurymembers vote, so your argument that the Juries are brainwashed by the betting odds is officially reduted.

And btw a 55-60% Quota in predicting a Top15 is nothing really good. Im pretty sure if I would have made a Top15 prediction this year I would also easily get around 9-10 Right at least. And not to forget that this graphic prediccted the Combined Result, not the Juryresult only. I mean nearly everyone knew that ::sl ::es ::uk ::nl ::pt ::rs etc.. wouldnt make it in the Top15, so it was very easy to predict 9 of the Top15 (=60%) correct from the remaining 20 Countries.

Btw. this didnt answer my question how Björkman influenced the Musicprofessionals who votes. And btw what are the "New Juries" from 2013?

And last... this year it was clearly proved that the Televoter are brainwashed by the Bettingodds and not the Juries. In the Semifinal ::at deservedly got the same amount of Points (116) like ::il but in the Final suddenly there is a gap of 246 Points (317-71) which makes absolutely no sense. It clearly shows how the betting odds and all the mediahype brainwashed many ESC-Viewers this year. Everywhere is written that only ::cy and ::il can win, so noone voted for ::at knowing that he is chanceless. Many people obviously voted for ::il because they liked Netta more than Eleni among the only 2 possible Winners, while the Juries gave a damn about the Odds and recognised Cesar despite being only #19 (only Raffael Gualazzi was lower btw. from all Jurywinners). Not to forget that this Salvador-Idiot helped Israel this year...Many People wanted to see Israel win from then on, because they wanted to see how Salvador hands his Trophy to Netta. So yes, the Televoting is often by Circumstances which have nothing to do with Music.

Realest
24th September 2018, 18:18
Concerning Sweden: since 2013 Sweden has always gotten more points from juries than from televote (apart from 2016). Even for rather bad songs. So explain this to me. This happened, by the way, when Björkman got involved! ;-)

Sweden Jury voting | Public voting
2013 3 | 18
2014 2 | 4
2015 1 | 3
2016 6 | 9
2017 3 | 8
2018 2 | 23


::se sent very Juryfriendly Songs. Its that easy.

I also think that Robin Sternberg was a bit overrated, but still its a chart- and radiofriendly Popsong which is vocally very anspruchsvoll (dont know in english), so it fits in the Jury Agenda. Not to forgot that Robin only won Melfest thanks to the professional Juries. SVT always makes sure that they dont send something that could get killed by the Juries at ESC so they take the Risk that their Televoters get overvoted. Yohio would easily have been something around the 20s at Eurovision I guess.

Sanna was loved by both equally.

Mans scored 279 Televotes from 39 Countries (7.15 Points) so you cant say that the Juryvoting was faraway and was unfair.

Frans should have won the Juryvoting regarding that he apparently represents a Juryfriendly Country plus had the only hit in this horrible year. The Fact that the only Hitsong (Russia, Ukraine, Australia who?) scored only 9th with the Juries refutes every single Argument of yours regarding Björkman rigging the Juryvote.

Robin Bengtsson is the Same like Mans. He scored 126 Televotes from 36 Countries while being Top15 in the remaining Countries, so you cant say there was a huge Gap.

Benjamin sent a chart- and radiofriendly modern Popsong mixed with 80s Elements which had a universal Appeal all over the 3 continents. His Song went platinum 2-3 Weeks before Eurovision started and his Staging was something never seen before. But not to forget that the Staging would be nothing without Benjamins Stage-Presence. It was the whole Package which had Juryfriendlyfriendlyness written all over it. If you read the Swedenthread here or in ESCForum, you can see that even most of the Haters predicted a Top5 in the Juryvoting and the Fact that -back then in March- 215 us unknown Jurymembers gave Benjamin the 2nd Place like predicted since 2 Months, proves, that they did their Job right. F.Y.R. Macedonia or San Marino would get the Same Jurypoints with that Entry, say what ever you want. So Id rather say the Televoting should be questioned on this one.

Maybe other Countries should step up their Game like Sweden did after the Huge Failure from 2010, if they want to convince the Juries. Hope I could help. midnightsun

tuorem
25th September 2018, 11:23
Well, there is a correlation between Songquality and Bettingodds. Good songs are tendencially higher in the odds and bad songs tendencially lower. It is surely no coincidence that f.e. Cyprus and Israel are high in the odds and Slovenia and Portugal lower.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VerifiableReliableFairyfly-small.gif

I would have thought of other examples in terms of entries of lesser quality. xsnooty You wanted to summon me by naming those two.

midnightsun
25th September 2018, 11:34
I don't think odds show a clear trend what is a good or bad song, at least not in Eurovision. I posted the history of odds some postings ago and in the most unpredictable year (2011) very "good" songs (fan - and radio friendly) flopped. Some of them would have been very high ranked in the odds in 2016, 17,18 ...

The odds are influenced by people on betting on things. Some countries will always be high in the odds because just of their country. Portugal so low in the final wasn't necessarily expected. I think people just didn't see Portugal winning again the contest so for some logical reasons nobody would set their money on this country again. Slovenia is just at the margin of what people listen to normally so there is a good chance it will rise up surprisingly high despite the odds but it won't ever win.

Realest
25th September 2018, 12:59
To finish this discussion:

This is Benjamins Juryresult:

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/180708/dlvm2xa5.jpg

Benjamin got the most #1 Votings, even more than Cesar.
96/210 Professional Juries had him in the Top5.
147/210 Professional Juries had him in the Top10.

He convinced all over the 3 Continents. Noone can tell me that Björkman bribed any of them. ::se has too much Reputation to lose for such Non-Sense.

Realest
25th September 2018, 13:01
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VerifiableReliableFairyfly-small.gif

I would have thought of other examples in terms of entries of lesser quality. xsnooty You wanted to summon me by naming those two.

Well, those Songs didnt chart anywhere and didnt even exist anymore one day after Eurovision. Those Songs brought nothing new/innovative to Eurovision and I cant see why they should get high Jurypoints. Most of the Countries had them in the Bottom3 in the Televoting and without their Diasporavotes they would have had around 0 Points in the Televoting. So these songs are completely irrelevant.

tuorem
25th September 2018, 13:10
Well, those Songs didnt chart anywhere and didnt even exist anymore one day after Eurovision. Those Songs brought nothing new/innovative to Eurovision and I cant see why they should get high Jurypoints. Most of the Countries had them in the Bottom3 in the Televoting and without their Diasporavotes they would have had around 0 Points in the Televoting. So these songs are completely irrelevant.

And you show me no mercy :lol: Aw, my poor heart :(

AlekS
25th September 2018, 15:11
He convinced all over the 3 Continents. Noone can tell me that Björkman bribed any of them. ::se has too much Reputation to lose for such Non-Sense.
Screw Björkman. The broadcasters themselves are "dear friends" with each other. The broadacsters' officials form the juries according to desired outcome, perfectly knowing every jurors' taste.

As for Sweden 2018. He performed better at the jury rehearsals. If they cared about televoters they would selected something less pale, monotonous and more appealing like Israel or Cyprus.



Those Songs brought nothing new/innovative to Eurovision and I cant see why they should get high Jurypoints.
::se How come a weak spinoff of their last year's Justin Timberlake spinoff is so innovative that it ended as the jury's #2? :lol:

Realest
25th September 2018, 15:32
Screw Björkman. The broadcasters themselves are "dear friends" with each other. The broadacsters' officials form the juries according to desired outcome, perfectly knowing every jurors' taste.


These are only Conspiracys. Such form of Corruption exists, if even, only in Countries like ::me ::mk ::by ::az and ::am like they have proven often enough in the Past with their similar Juryvotes. This has nothing to do with Björkman or ::se since they never benefitted by such corruption (Sanna Nielsen even lost some Points because of such agreements).




::se How come a weak spinoff of their last year's Justin Timberlake spinoff is so innovative that it ended as the jury's #2? :lol:

As I said on another Page, "Dance you off" went Platinum (only "NMAFN" reached the Same in ::it as far as I know) and I can Imagine that Professional Juries saw the hitpotential in it. Lets not forget the whole polished Performance weve never seen before. For me the Imagination seems logical that someone from the Musicindustry sits in his Bureau, watches all 26 Performances and decided that ::se stood out the Most. As I said earlier, even here and mostly on ESCforum most people including Haters knew about "Dance you off"s Juryfriendlyness and predicted a Top5 Finish. The Surprising Thing here is definitely the Televoting.

Preuss
25th September 2018, 23:40
What’s confusing to me is the fact that you do not believe that Sweden’s pushed but the juries in this contest (and neither do I really), but still you believe that Australia’s being pushed big time in this contest...? :?

AlekS
26th September 2018, 00:27
This has nothing to do with Björkman or ::se since they never benefitted by such corruption.
xrofl3 Few years ago 1 Western broadcaster openly said in April that they will give Sweden the highest points, and they gave them really high points eventually. This is all I'm gonna say about it.


As I said on another Page, "Dance you off" went Platinum (only "NMAFN" reached the Same in ::it as far as I know) and I can Imagine that Professional Juries saw the hitpotential in it. Lets not forget the whole polished Performance weve never seen before. For me the Imagination seems logical that someone from the Musicindustry sits in his Bureau, watches all 26 Performances and decided that ::se stood out the Most. As I said earlier, even here and mostly on ESCforum most people including Haters knew about "Dance you off"s Juryfriendlyness and predicted a Top5 Finish. The Surprising Thing here is definitely the Televoting.
Sales shouldn't be even considered by pro juries, because it depends of buyers/televoters and their tastes...The juries shouldn't be influenced by somebody elses' tastes ie. sales :o He didn't chart well outside of Swedish market anyway.


I'd rather imagine some of the the jurors thinking "oh, it's Sweden, they're gods of Eurovision recently. Our NF buys music from Swedish authors. MF is the best. They're high in the odds. Björkman was in our international jury. He's a guru of ESC, you can't b*tch with someone who produced ESC (and proabbly will produce it again)" etc. and other nonsense which has nothing in common with particular music quality. + as I've said already, he performed better at the jury show. The juries have already discredited themselves so many times that I'm not even wondering.

Televoters were simply spoiled. Swedish music of such kind is everywhere. And what we've seen in May is not even close to what we hear outside of Eurovision-bubble. Many people noticed how he reminds them the last year's entry.
It sounded okay-ish in the semi but it got boring in the final. The staging made my eyes bleed. He's not attractive or charismatic for me :oops: As appeared I'm not the only one who wasn't impressed - only 688k YT views of his performance in the final.

Realest
26th September 2018, 00:50
xrofl3 Few years ago 1 Western broadcaster openly said in April that they will give Sweden the highest points, and they gave them really high points eventually. This is all I'm gonna say about it.


Sales shouldn't be even considered by pro juries, because it depends of buyers/televoters and their tastes...The juries shouldn't be influenced by somebody elses' tastes ie. sales :o He didn't chart well outside of Swedish market anyway.


I'd rather imagine the juries thinking "oh, it's Sweden, they're gods of Eurovision recently. Our NF buys music from Swedish authors. MF is the best. They're high in the odds. Björkman was in our international jury. He's a guru of ESC, you can't b*tch with someone who produced ESC (and proabbly will produce it again)" etc. and other nonsense which has nothing in common with particular music quality. + as I've said already, he performed better at the jury show. The juries have already discredited themselves so many times that I'm not even wondering.

Televoters were simply spoiled. Swedish music of such kind is everywhere. And what we've seen in May is not even close to what we hear outside of Eurovision-bubble. Many people noticed how he reminds them the last year's entry.
It sounded okay-ish in the semi but it got boring in the final. The staging made my eyes bleed. He's not attractive or charismatic for me :oops: As appeared I'm not the only one who wasn't impressed - only 688k YT views of his performance in the final.


1) Name or it didnt happen..

2) Juries often went for songs that can exist outside Eurovision. Benjamin had the 6th highest Chartsuccess this season (behind IL/CY/CZ/DE/AT) which is pretty good for a Song that came 23rd in the Televoting.

3) These are only Conspiracys again. Our NF f.e. had Songs from finish and danish Composers (Thomas Stengaard) and still our Jurys gave 0 Points to them. Countries like Serbia, Armenia, Slovenia etc.. didnt have swedish Songs in their NFs and gave 12 to Sweden. Not to forget how the azeri Juries constantly give 0 Points to Sweden since years (Robin Bengtssons only 0 in the Semi came from Azerbaijan btw.). I even think many Juries dont even know who he is. In our Jury we had Singers who have no clue about ESC.

4) I wrote it somewhere else, but I also think Benjamin was the Victim of other Circumstances which have nothing to do with music. If he represented Portugal f.e. who sent 3 portuguese Ballads in a row, he would have been more appreciated by the Televoters. But this shouldnt be a criteria. Thats why we have Juries. He charted in Coutries which gave him 0 Points, while better placed Songs didnt chart. I and many professional think his staging is innovative and impressive. And btw. without being gay I think hes pretty attractive. The YT-Views say nothing in this case. Moldova or Slovenia also have like 80% of their Views on the Semi-Performance. Those Views are rarely equally distributed.

Realest
26th September 2018, 00:53
What’s confusing to me is the fact that you do not believe that Sweden’s pushed but the juries in this contest (and neither do I really), but still you believe that Australia’s being pushed big time in this contest...? :?

I never said Australia cheated regarding the Juryvotes, but their special treatment is definitely not fair. 2016 it was disgusting how the EBU tried to promote an Australian Victory. And as I said in another Thread, I see no Justifications for Isaiahs 171 Points.

AlekS
26th September 2018, 11:22
1) Name or it didnt happen...

2) Juries often went for songs that can exist outside Eurovision. Benjamin had the 6th highest Chartsuccess this season (behind IL/CY/CZ/DE/AT) which is pretty good for a Song that came 23rd in the Televoting.

3) These are only Conspiracys again. Our NF f.e. had Songs from finish and danish Composers (Thomas Stengaard) and still our Jurys gave 0 Points to them. Countries like Serbia, Armenia, Slovenia etc.. didnt have swedish Songs in their NFs and gave 12 to Sweden. Not to forget how the azeri Juries constantly give 0 Points to Sweden since years (Robin Bengtssons only 0 in the Semi came from Azerbaijan btw.). I even think many Juries dont even know who he is. In our Jury we had Singers who have no clue about ESC.

4) I wrote it somewhere else, but I also think Benjamin was the Victim of other Circumstances which have nothing to do with music. If he represented Portugal f.e. who sent 3 portuguese Ballads in a row, he would have been more appreciated by the Televoters. But this shouldnt be a criteria. Thats why we have Juries. He charted in Coutries which gave him 0 Points, while better placed Songs didnt chart. I and many professional think his staging is innovative and impressive. And btw. without being gay I think hes pretty attractive. The YT-Views say nothing in this case. Moldova or Slovenia also have like 80% of their Views on the Semi-Performance. Those Views are rarely equally distributed.
1) Someone from Big 5 :rolleyes: It doesn't matter because they've changed the HoD and director thankfully. However they're still "dear friends" with Björkman.

2) His "success" in charts is tragic. #78 in France, #69 in Spain with how many, 100 copies? Compare this amount to amount of televoters ;)

3) Conspiracy is your words about haters :lol:
Never said that ALL juries are corrupt tho. Armenian juror was at MF 2018. Björkman visited Armenian broadcaster in 2017 & 2018 to take part in their NF's international jury. When somebody's broacaster selects your song (it's not even fully your choice anymore) it's a cheating :? No matter if they vote for it in May or not.

4) As I've said earlier the sales charts these days are tragic. Especially everything beneath the top 20. YT doesn't represent Easterners though because it's not so popular here comparing to Western countries for some weird reason. Exclude the local views and likes and we will get almost equal picture with the televoting (talking about the final).

Schlagerman1
26th September 2018, 23:07
This thread is so negative it is even making Nina Bo'Nina Brown jealous...

http://68.media.tumblr.com/45326bcbbd27128c024025f440b9e466/tumblr_olv7k8R8b41rosb88o1_1280.gif

Sure there is always things that can be better, but for real, can't we just this year try to focus more on the fun parts of Eurovision in 2019, the songs, the talents, the crazy and the emotional stuff. There is so many things in the world that we can worry about than a silly little music competition in Europe where singers from two or three continents (depends on how you count and I don't care really...) gets 3 and if they are lucky, 6 minutes of fame. Everything won't be 100% fair, but is life that? No I guess it will never be. Instead of sitting here on a forum trying to overshadow others opinion, then go and try to do something about it instead. I am no expert in how to make that, but there is probably a way if you put your mind to it. Instead I will this year try to put everything on the side, all the politics, all the drama, all the fights and just listen to the songs and enjoy the crap out of them. I may fall into these "traps" as well of going to far once or twice, but we are all humans after all. Let's party like it's 2019 already! xheya

Preuss
27th September 2018, 00:12
edited

GRE
27th September 2018, 06:54
Australia.

Preuss
27th September 2018, 19:39
Realest

Can I just ask you why you believe that Sweden entries don't get any special treatment by the juries but Australian entries do...? :? You wrote earlier that the reason why Sweden's done so well with the juries is the fact that they've sent "juryfriendly songs and it's as easy as that". Well so has Australia so where's the difference

Because I find your arguments quite ironically as everything's based on your taste, and you have absolutely nothing to support your claims that Australia gets special treatment. I just can't take your arguments seriously about this Sweden/Australia thing because I feel like your arguments are so one-dimensional

blue00eyes
27th September 2018, 20:02
I am not Realest but I would answer that both Australia and Sweden are doing well with juries, because their efforts are indeed juryfriendly BUT in my opinion Australia's live performances are overvalued - Isaiah and especially Jessica were not THAT strong to receive such amount of points. Low televotes were just Karma.

Realest
27th September 2018, 22:51
Realest

Can I just ask you why you believe that Sweden entries don't get any special treatment by the juries but Australian entries do...? :? You wrote earlier that the reason why Sweden's done so well with the juries is the fact that they've sent "juryfriendly songs and it's as easy as that". Well so has Australia so where's the difference

Because I find your arguments quite ironically as everything's based on your taste, and you have absolutely nothing to support your claims that Australia gets special treatment. I just can't take your arguments seriously about this Sweden/Australia thing because I feel like your arguments are so one-dimensional

As I said, Sweden brought additionally something new to the Stage, while Australia doesnt. I said it in another Thread, I could understand 5-6 Points to Isaiah, but some Professionals put him #1-4, which is ridiculous imo. Neither does he have a strong voice (at least Live) nor is he a great Liverperformer, nor was the Staging outstanding etc... In the Case of Benjamin (without being subjective right now), I can totally Get why soe Jurymembers in their Bureau and think that this was the best of 26 Entrys, since it definitely stood out.

hrcgfd
28th September 2018, 10:05
In case of Isaiah, I believe that 2017 wasn't a strong year and juries just had got lost in a diversity of domestic songs (≠ bad) and decided to vote for the song that had traits which they get used to considering as quality ones.

tuorem
28th September 2018, 11:17
In case of Isaiah, I believe that 2017 wasn't a strong year and juries just had got lost in a diversity of domestic songs (≠ bad) and decided to vote for the song that had traits which they get used to considering as quality ones.

Moldova, Belgium, Azerbaijan (and to a lesser extent Poland) were not "domestic"-sounding songs, yet they got significantly lower amounts of points despite having good stagings (!) and songs that should have appealed a lot more to juries.

"Don't Come Easy" was indeed jury-friendly, but it wasn't the only one. Personally, I can't rationally explain why it stood out more to them compared to entries with similar - if not greater - appeal. That's why some people wonder if they actually just voted for the song's merit or if the flag helped get that result.

I'm waiting for the day when Australia are ranked higher with televoters than with juries, since it never happened so far (even in the semis). From my perspective, juries have been showing way too much leniency, especially this year while their effort was far from being on point.

hrcgfd
28th September 2018, 13:07
Moldova, Belgium, Azerbaijan (and to a lesser extent Poland) were not "domestic"-sounding songs, yet they got significantly lower amounts of points despite having good stagings (!) and songs that should have appealed a lot more to juries.

Both Moldova and Belgium were at the juries top 10 the same as Australia, so all of them were appreciated by jury. 60 points gap isn't that huge for their places.

tuorem
28th September 2018, 13:50
Both Moldova and Belgium were at the juries top 10 the same as Australia, so all of them were appreciated by jury. 60 points gap isn't that huge for their places.

60 points represent almost one third of Isaiah's final score, so it's not that negligible imo. What in this act deserved more support than the others from a professional point of view? That's the question. xthink

Realest
28th September 2018, 17:29
Thank god the EBU invented the exponential Juryvoting, otherwise Jessica would have been 8th with 104 Points instead of 12th with 90 Points. That would throw another bad light on the Juries. Also Isaiah would have only 149 Jurypoints instead of 171 with the exponential Juryvoting.

Preuss
28th September 2018, 19:18
Well if I judged the last jury results with my own honest opinion, 90% of the entries wouldn't get a score I'd approve of tbh, so that's not really an argument. Well Realest, once again you're just basing your claims on your own damn opinion. Why the hell shouldn't jury members have been allowed to rank Isaiah 1-4th if they want it themselves lol? I'm pretty sure that a majority of the grand final entries are in the top 4 of some individuals, so why aren't you judging those entries than constantly throwing shades over Australian entries when ironically enough defending Swedish entries...? :? Well I agree with your "subjective" opinion on Benjamin's jury points too btw. It isn't Isaiah's fault that he competed in a rather weak year. It's not his fault that other countries couldn't collect points more consistently. I mean, if he competed this year, he wouldn't end up in 4th place with 171 points. And I'm pretty sure many jurors ranked Isaiah and Jessica down their lists
tuorem, well this is why I want jury members to explain the reasons why they vote as they vote, because right now, a lot of people only assume how the jury members think and vote

Preuss
28th September 2018, 19:22
Thank god the EBU invented the exponential Juryvoting, otherwise Jessica would have been 8th with 104 Points instead of 12th with 90 Points. That would throw another bad light on the Juries. Also Isaiah would have only 149 Jurypoints instead of 171 with the exponential Juryvoting.

See, another proof that what you about Isaiah is the fact that he ended up fourth lol. I mean, here we're talking about 14 points for Jessica and you're making a big deal about it. So I'm pretty sure you wrote once that you could accept 80 points for Jessica, but if she ended up with a score of 104 and 24 points more it would put the juries in a bad light...? :?

hrcgfd
28th September 2018, 19:26
I think that the principles of an old system answer why Isaiah got a gap - average ranking is helpful for calm entries without triggers, some country with 8-9-14-10-10 places from juries would be higher than one that has 2-24-24-1-15.