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View Full Version : Inside look into how the running order was devised.



dcs34
13th May 2017, 00:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iDu-gxzy_s

Personally, I think it really serves as a great argument in favour of the return of random draw, as we see the whims and tastes of a few people play a huge role in their chances of shining in the contest. I reckon this is a bit of an own-goal on the part of the EBU - they spend the video going on about colour palate and genre and how everything is so neutral, but some of the country notes have anything but neutral labels, like Poland’s “female angry”, what seems to be “hopeless” for Spain, “very odd” for Croatia and a few instances of just “good” - in Björkman’s eyes. So, here’s a list of how Björkman sees your favourite songs! Those with keener eyesight may be able to pick out even more detail:

Poland: Musical ballad, female angry
Spain: Male, midtempo pop, guitar based, hopeless(?)
Hungary: Male, ethnic gypsy style, mid tempo
Germany: Female, mid-tempo pop, white
Ukraine: Male, band, rock, mixed dark and ?? blue
Romania: Duett (sic), rap and yodel, happy pill, canon (sic) with pyro, graphic content(?)
Portugal: Intimate, sensitive, audience participation, b-stage transition(?)
Azerbaijan: Supermodern, cool, good
Israël: Happy Guetta pop
Bulgaria: Male, pop ballad
Belarus: Happy pop, ethnic
UK: Boot camp [the pre-filmed video with Mans and the 3 hosts], extra time, pop ballad
Israël: Male, europop, white to yellow orange red, happy guetta ref, small to big
Australia: Soul/pop ballad, modern, ___ (half wiped out pencil marks)
Greece: Female … swimming pool(???)
Belgium: Female pop, sulky(?) cool
Sweden: Extra time, 80s ray of light posters(?)… turquoise, bluec
France: Female, cool pop song
Croatia: TWO DIFFERENT VOICES, operatic and pop, very odd, cool blue, yellow, orange
Denmark: Pop ballad modern, ??? intimate
Italy: Male, ironic (or iconic?) pop, ape
Moldova: Male, wedding theme, quite amusing
Netherlands: Female, three women, countrypop schlager, follow the video, blue
Cyprus: Male, 2 dancers… ok (??)

tuorem
13th May 2017, 01:59
So they don't care about music genres and tempos: it's either cool or uncool, and that's it. :? How very eloquent!

I can only imagine what their notes were like for the semis:
Georgia: James Bond ballad, female angry, voluminous hair
San Marino: LOL, hopeless
Slovenia: pop ballad, dated af
Malta: female not too angry, F-I-L-L-E-R
Finland: zzzzz, bland, black, bird
Latvia: freak show, weird
FYR Macedonia: cool pop music, uncool vocals
Czech Republic: who?

xrofl3

dcs34
13th May 2017, 02:21
So they don't care about music genres and tempos: it's either cool or uncool, and that's it. :? How very eloquent!

It's possible they mean "cool" as in the colour palette - blues, pinks, purples etc rather than personal preference.

But yes it does seem like it's chosen on the whim of one man. Why would any of the other people in the room argue with him about it?

Gordon_Shumway
13th May 2017, 11:15
I watched that "official video" too. Of course there was nothing said about what I really would like to know:
Are they aware that (no matter if they originally intended it) they destroy some countries' chances for a good result?
If an entry isn't a top 10 candidate from the beginning and might fight for places around 15-20, then a starting position between 2 and 7 is deadly.
Same goes for being put between two favourites (poor poor Denmark this year).

EDC0708
13th May 2017, 11:23
I've only heard an excerpt of Spain so far, and that sounded pretty good to me, but it's pretty disappointing if the production team have genuinely written "hopeless" as a description for it, or for any participating entry, regardless of the songs quality. Personal preferences should not play part of the running order process, since everyone has different tastes.

A fairer system might be for the production to sort the songs into uptempo and downtempo, and organise where the uptempo and downtempo songs perform in the running order, and then use a random draw to determine what goes where.

LoveHate
13th May 2017, 11:29
I'm still a fan of a planned running order, but rather than drawing 1st/2nd half they should draw 1st/2nd/3rd/4th quarter.

JChan
13th May 2017, 17:24
I like a planned draw way more then a random draw, but how about having the countries that do the best in the semi finals picking their spots in the grand final? That would reward countries that do well, and negates the possibility of identifying some songs as "hopeless".

LoveHate
13th May 2017, 17:33
I like a planned draw way more then a random draw, but how about having the countries that do the best in the semi finals picking their spots in the grand final? That would reward countries that do well, and negates the possibility of identifying some songs as "hopeless".

Hard to do if the semi results are supposed to be a secret. And then there are the pre-qualified countries as well.

A-lister
13th May 2017, 17:45
I hate this "producers' choose running order" corrupt biased crap draw... EBU should really re-think this if they want to look unbiased and credible (doubt they care though, did they care about anything the public thought so far!?)...

It's so easy to make a random draw yet spice it up a bit with putting songs into genre or tempo pots to not risk having same styles next to eachother and end up having a diverse show...

It's time to re-introduce the random draw again (this time with genre/tempo/style pots), it's a win-win really since it's more fair, yet the show will not get harmed.

blue00eyes
13th May 2017, 18:16
I wonder if you can BUY a good starting position.

A-lister
13th May 2017, 18:25
I wonder if you can BUY a good starting position.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could... xshrug

I mean if you can "buy" a statement from the EBU, then anything could be possible no?

blue00eyes
13th May 2017, 18:57
I wouldn't be surprised if you could... xshrug

I mean if you can "buy" a statement from the EBU, then anything could be possible no?
Because it's all so rigged without the random draw, everytime favourites get a good strategic position, weaker countries get bad spots, you can even guess the possible results from the draw..

Ezio
13th May 2017, 20:14
I think the result that Sertab Erener or Zeljko Joksimovic achieved from 4th starting position is out of reach for us #hopeless :D

But I also think it is slightly bleak that one can read the odds ranking in the starting order. And for some delegations it must be disheartening to see which spot they get as they can read into it as well. The element of surprise is really reduced to its minimum.