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escYOUnited
9th April 2017, 02:06
http://img.freeflagicons.com/thumb/music_icon/kazakhstan/kazakhstan_640.png

Sabiondo
13th April 2017, 02:59
The question is: ¿When EBU will leave their double standards and allowed the ::kz debut in ESC as well? :confused: :rolleyes:

GRE
17th May 2017, 09:35
The winner of Turkvision, wants to represent ::kz in Eurovision.

https://eurovoix-world.com/kazakhstan-turkvision-winner-zhanar-dugalova-compete-eurovision/

randajad
17th May 2017, 11:47
No no never xheat

tuorem
17th May 2017, 16:21
The winner of Turkvision, wants to represent ::kz in Eurovision.

https://eurovoix-world.com/kazakhstan-turkvision-winner-zhanar-dugalova-compete-eurovision/

https://media.giphy.com/media/4OowbIsmYHbpu/giphy.gif

Wait wait... Goddessar Dugalova willing to be the first Kazakh representative in Eurovision? xheat what is that groundbreaking news? OMG, this needs to happen! xfaint

Izin Körem 2.0 and we can cancel the next edition right now xheat

Quent91
17th May 2017, 20:04
Will the show begin at 2am and finish at 5am over there ?

EscGeek
17th May 2017, 20:07
I support ::kz participation8-)

EscTurkey
18th May 2017, 00:46
I want them to participate but under one condition:

A song in Kazakh !!!

I love Kazakh language so much

A-lister
18th May 2017, 11:39
The question is: ¿When EBU will leave their double standards and allowed the ::kz debut in ESC as well? :confused: :rolleyes:

Nah, it's not an English speaking country belonging to the Western/Anglo-Saxic cultural and political sphere, I mean sure it has a geographical European part larger than some European countries, which by definition makes it closer to Europe than Australia, and they broadcasted the contest for some years already, but we can ignore these facts and EBU certainly won't let them in.

Chances we see USA, Canada and New Zealand are higher than a country which actually is partly within Europe, I rest my case!

randajad
18th May 2017, 19:25
Tbh, I'd like it more to see New Zealand jn Eurovision than Kazakhstan, and even than microstates.

GRE
18th May 2017, 20:31
Tbh, I'd like it more to see New Zealand jn Eurovision than Kazakhstan, and even than microstates.

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/shock-gif.gif

Laepo1
18th May 2017, 22:05
how would it affect the bloc voting if kazakhstan entered?

Gabe
18th May 2017, 22:16
how would it affect the bloc voting if kazakhstan entered?

High points for Russia and Turkey if they came back. High for Azerbaijan too probably.

Laepo1
18th May 2017, 22:44
High points for Russia and Turkey if they came back. High for Azerbaijan too probably.

I see. They already get enough points :x but it would be nice to have a new different country, especially one that western europe knows nothing about.

But I guess that in case of a win they would host on a european country no? I mean, the hour difference there must be at least 4 or 5.

Ewigkeit
18th May 2017, 23:07
Shows start at 00:00 in the red area and at 01:00 in the orange one.

https://c.tadst.com/gfx/ctrypage/kz.1491127200.png?959

ParadiseES
18th May 2017, 23:10
I think they should try to join that Asiavision invention instead. They fit more there.

GRE
18th May 2017, 23:32
I think they should try to join that Asiavision invention instead. They fit more there.

They fit ?
And where does Australia fit ?

ParadiseES
18th May 2017, 23:34
They fit ?
And where does Australia fit ?

There as well ;)

DanielLuis
19th May 2017, 00:32
I think they should try to join that Asiavision invention instead. They fit more there.

Do they though? Kazhakstan seem to wish to participate in European stuff instead of Asian stuff. If they prefer Eurovision, I think they should be allowed in it. It's a completely different situation from Australia, in my view.

DenizESC
19th May 2017, 03:29
I think Kazakhstan will fit perfectly well in ESC and they actually are partly in Europe so there should be no real arguments against them not to mention that Kazakhstan always takes part in European (sports) events just like Israel for example who is 0% in Europe. Also these days it looks like Eurovision is turning into Worldvision anyway. I wouldn't be too surprised if that actually happened in 10 years. Some fans might dislike that but Australia is staying in the contest even though EBU once said it was for 1 year. And at some point this will make more countries want to join and there will also be no arguments against them while having Australia. Australia can take part, then why can an actual European country not take part... Plus like I said the contest obviously is turning into a Worldvision.


No no never xheat

? Why ¿

Sabiondo
27th September 2017, 00:49
According to Esctoday, EBU wasn't clossed the way to an possible debut of ::kz at ESC yet! ;)

http://esctoday.com/150113/kazakhstan-will-khabar-agency-debut-eurovision-2018/

A-lister
28th September 2017, 21:00
I'm pretty sure ::kz won't get this invite, chances are higher ::us would get it... but we'll see

Sabiondo
29th September 2017, 18:58
I'm pretty sure ::kz won't get this invite, chances are higher ::us would get it... but we'll see

::us won't be invited as long their main associated channels don't telecast ESC for 3 years :lol: I think that ::kz eventually will be invited in 2 or 3 years if they keep telecasting annually ESC by regularity.

Charly
30th September 2017, 01:02
Well atm, the EBU has neither confirmed or denied about Kazakhstan participation.

So its all a big mystery

JonnyWest
30th September 2017, 01:18
I can see ::kz debuting, let's see if the broadcaster is willing to do it

joancamo
1st October 2017, 01:54
I think Kazakhstan will be debuting if all or most of the countries that have yet to confirm participation (Albania, Hungary, Macedonia, Moldova, Russia, San Marino) end up withdrawing.

DanielLuis
1st October 2017, 02:51
The EBU didn't deny that Kazakhstan will participate next year. By their words in that announcement I think it's very possible we will see their name on the list of participating countries in a few weeks

JSSArcos
1st October 2017, 11:16
I want Kazakhstan on ESC 18, but I think it will be difficult, but I believe that in two to three years we will have Kazakhstan.

AlekS
18th November 2017, 18:29
Kazakhstan will debut in JESC 2018. Wondering if Channel 31 will be invited to ESC 2019.
I hope that it's gonna be Khabar.

GRE
19th November 2017, 12:02
It seems that sooner or later, ::kz will be part of Eurovision family.
So, I can't see the reason why they are not invited for ESC 2018.

Sammy
20th November 2017, 20:49
Kazakhstan will debut in JESC 2018. Wondering if Channel 31 will be invited to ESC 2019.
I hope that it's gonna be Khabar.

Is this just a wish/hope or have you got precise information on that? I couldn't find any hint on the sites I looked that up.

AlekS
20th November 2017, 21:00
Is this just a wish/hope or have you got precise information on that? I couldn't find any hint on the sites I looked that up.
http://escunited.com/forum/threads/16843-JESC-2018?p=1755439&viewfull=1#post1755439

I included the video from the channel 31 themselves in the JESC sub-forum. Here it is (in Russian):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyTxKtjS8ow

Their delegation is in Tbilisi right now.

Sammy
20th November 2017, 21:06
^sadly I don't speak russian.... :(

AlekS
20th November 2017, 21:19
^ https://www.facebook.com/EurovisionCoverage/posts/10155121191741305

Sammy
20th November 2017, 21:31
thank you!
though what I read from this is just that a delegation and a group of children will be present at the event and that the kids will perform at the Euroclub. this is not the same thing as an official participation. Even more as they mention that "a similar performance" took place in 2013, which was not a participation either. Or am I wrong?

AlekS
20th November 2017, 21:44
^ "Broadcaster will send delegation and talented kids to Junior Eurovision in Tbilisi, will broadcast the contest at 22:00 local time on Sunday and intends to debut in the competition next year".


Their news anchor said they will broadcast JESC 2017 live and they can send an entry for JESC 2018.
Also the title of the video says "Channel 31 became the official partner of the EBU"... imho this is some kind of commercial deal which doesn't require associated membership.

Sammy
20th November 2017, 21:51
^exactly - they reached an agreement with the EBU to send singers for the euroclub and broadcast it - and they intend to debut. which can mean both: they want to but still don't know if the EBU will let them or they have the OK from the EBU but don't know if they will be able to do so for other reasons. I cannot think of such reasons, so I rather presume it's the first case.
I hope you are right, but I remain skeptical. ;)

AlekS
20th November 2017, 22:08
^ This time they've got the Minister of Culture in their delegation so I'm wondering if there will be some talks with the EBU officials.

NicoRobin
23rd November 2017, 18:42
I hope Kazakhstan will debut soon.

Their potential entry to the JESC is already a good start.

Sabiondo
22nd December 2017, 12:54
Andy says that CEO of Channel 31, Bagdat Kodzhahmetov issued a statement claiming reaching a deal to debut in the adult Eurovision Song Contest 2019.

https://www.facebook.com/EurovisionCoverage/posts/10155205077931305

Realest
22nd December 2017, 13:39
Oh no, not another Problemcountry. We have enough of them.

GRE
22nd December 2017, 13:41
Andy says that CEO of Channel 31, Bagdat Kodzhahmetov issued a statement claiming reaching a deal to debut in the adult Eurovision Song Contest 2019.

https://www.facebook.com/EurovisionCoverage/posts/10155205077931305

It is true.
::kz will debut in 2019, along with ::li.
Now, let's wait and see what's going to happen with ::xk & ::na.

John1
22nd December 2017, 13:50
I'm so glad to see that ::kz is still as determined to take part at both the ESC/JESC as ::li. It'll happen anytime soon. ;)

A-lister
22nd December 2017, 17:45
Oh no, not another Problemcountry. We have enough of them.

Meaning?

A-lister
22nd December 2017, 17:46
Andy says that CEO of Channel 31, Bagdat Kodzhahmetov issued a statement claiming reaching a deal to debut in the adult Eurovision Song Contest 2019.

https://www.facebook.com/EurovisionCoverage/posts/10155205077931305

Is this Channel 31 even an associate member? So far only Khabar TV is from my understanding, and EBU blocked them so far so I take these "news" with a grain of salt.

Realest
22nd December 2017, 18:05
Meaning?

I have prejudices towards such countries after countries like ::am, ::ru and ::az politisize the contest whereever they can.
Also its to mention that 21% of the Population is russian and nohate, but that means another safe 10-12 Points for Russia nomatter how good/bad the Song is, which is very unfair for countries like ::ch, ::at and ::cz f.e. who dont belong a certain Block.

John1
22nd December 2017, 20:13
I have prejudices towards such countries after countries like ::am, ::ru and ::az politisize the contest whereever they can.
Also its to mention that 21% of the Population is russian and nohate, but that means another safe 10-12 Points for Russia nomatter how good/bad the Song is, which is very unfair for countries like ::ch, ::at and ::cz f.e. who dont belong a certain Block.

Here we go for this endless drama...

A-lister
22nd December 2017, 20:14
I have prejudices towards such countries after countries like ::am, ::ru and ::az politisize the contest whereever they can.
Also its to mention that 21% of the Population is russian and nohate, but that means another safe 10-12 Points for Russia nomatter how good/bad the Song is, which is very unfair for countries like ::ch, ::at and ::cz f.e. who dont belong a certain Block.

So good then that EBU introduced politicized juries to vote for countries regardless of entries aswell to balance the diaspora votes :lol:

EscTurkey
22nd December 2017, 20:19
I have prejudices towards such countries after countries like ::am, ::ru and ::az politisize the contest whereever they can.
Also its to mention that 21% of the Population is russian and nohate, but that means another safe 10-12 Points for Russia nomatter how good/bad the Song is, which is very unfair for countries like ::ch, ::at and ::cz f.e. who dont belong a certain Block.

Austria won 3 years ago with no certain block, so to say.
And any country would have won sending Conchita Wurst with that song.
Plus, she lost to Trackshittaz in 2012, they didn't know her value until the channel chose her internally.
The reason why these countries are unsuccessful is because they don't take the contest seriously. The public interest is low, making quality of the songs in national selection low as well.

I am looking forward to see what Kazakhstan has to offer.

Realest
22nd December 2017, 20:42
Austria won 3 years ago with no certain block, so to say.
And any country would have won sending Conchita Wurst with that song.
Plus, she lost to Trackshittaz in 2012, they didn't know her value until the channel chose her internally.
The reason why these countries are unsuccessful is because they don't take the contest seriously. The public interest is low, making quality of the songs in national selection low as well.

I am looking forward to see what Kazakhstan has to offer.

Its not only about Winning, there are some other Places. Nathan Trent received 0 Points with an average Song, but we know if he represented Russia he would have got at least 80 Points which means a safe Top10 in the Televoting with Twice as much Points as the 11th Place (::az).

Realest
22nd December 2017, 20:47
So good then that EBU introduced politicized juries to vote for countries regardless of entries aswell to balance the diaspora votes :lol:

Well, the only Juries who vote politically are most of the EX-UDssR Juries. The other ones seemed to be pretty unpolitically imo with a few exceptions.

Realest
22nd December 2017, 20:52
Here we go for this endless drama...

Yes, I know.. Its offtopic, but as long the armenian, Azeri and belarussian Televoters dont prove to be objective, im against new countries from that region. 2014 f.e. ::ru didnt sent a regional Superstar who is allover known in that region and or a song who is somehow representative for the common Musicculture and neither was ::ru somehow a Topfavorite. So it was finally a very good opportunity to give those Twins the Points that they deserve and that was definetily no 12. But no, they failed miserably.

John1
22nd December 2017, 21:04
Yes, I know.. Its offtopic, but as long the armenian, Azeri and belarussian Televoters dont prove to be objective, im against new countries from that region. 2014 f.e. ::ru didnt sent a regional Superstar who is allover known in that region and or a song who is somehow representative for the common Musicculture and neither was ::ru somehow a Topfavorite. So it was finally a very good opportunity to give those Twins the Points that they deserve and that was definetily no 12. But no, they failed miserably.

Then you're opposed to Eastern European countries such as ::ua, ::by, ::am, ::az, ::lt, ::lv, ::ee, ::fi, ::ge?

Maybe that's the reason why ::ru is making it through the grand final everytime? No. A big no. The only viable ''reason'' is that they've kept sending flawless entries for 2006. Moreover, its only utter train wreck from 2014 was provoked by the lack of respect from the audience. That's basically how I'd sum it up.

EscTurkey
22nd December 2017, 21:05
Its not only about Winning, there are some other Places. Nathan Trent received 0 Points with an average Song, but we know if he represented Russia he would have got at least 80 Points which means a safe Top10 in the Televoting with Twice as much Points as the 11th Place (::az).

I doubt that :?
Russia never sent such a dull song that I'd compare it to.
I don't think it'd get zero points, but neither so high as 80.
Many songs got 20-40 points this year, I guess it would place somewhere between them.
Ukraine has the same voting potential as Russia and we saw this year how low they could get with televotes.
It's all about the SONG.
Nathan might be a great personality but I had to hear his song 10 times until I could finally remember the chorus. :D

Realest
22nd December 2017, 21:14
Then you're opposed to Eastern European countries such as ::ua, ::by, ::am, ::az, ::lt, ::lv, ::ee, ::fi, ::ge?

Maybe that's the reason why ::ru is making it through the grand final everytime? No. A big no. The only viable ''reason'' is that they've kept sending flawless entries for 2006. Moreover, its only utter train wreck from 2014 was provoked by the lack of respect from the audience. That's basically how I'd sum it up.

NO, the other Countries might give ::ru overaverage Points as well, but not always a 10 or 12 nomatter what the song is, f.e. ::ee gave deservedly ::nl their 12 without having diasporas. Only ::am and ::az should leave for their unneccessary politisation.

Realest
22nd December 2017, 21:24
I doubt that :?
Russia never sent such a dull song that I'd compare it to.
I don't think it'd get zero points, but neither so high as 80.
Many songs got 20-40 points this year, I guess it would place somewhere between them.
Ukraine has the same voting potential as Russia and we saw this year how low they could get with televotes.
It's all about the SONG.
Nathan might be a great personality but I had to hear his song 10 times until I could finally remember the chorus. :D

I can assure you that "Flame is burning would receive at least 10-12 from ::am, ::az, ::by, 6-8 from ::md ::ee ::lv ::ge and at least 4-6 from ::lt ::il ::de ::cz and 1-3 from ::pt ::bg and ::it
And no, not everything is only about the Song. Or do you think the belarussian 12 Points in 2004, 2005 or 2014 f.e. had anything to do with music? Would any other Country receive the same 12 Points from ::by?
And no, ::ua doesnt have the same Votingpotential. They have only high Diasporas in ::it ::pt ::cz and medium Diasporas in ::ru ::ge ::md and ::by. But at least they are a bit objective and didnt give their weaker entries from 2005/17 tons of blind votes.

But as said, the unfair Advantage for ::ru was only my second problem with ::kz.

EscTurkey
22nd December 2017, 21:45
I can assure you that "Flame is burning would receive at least 10-12 from ::am, ::az, ::by, 6-8 from ::md ::ee ::lv ::ge and at least 4-6 from ::lt ::il ::de ::cz and 1-3 from ::pt ::bg and ::it
And no, not everything is only about the Song. Or do you think the belarussian 12 Points in 2004, 2005 or 2014 f.e. had anything to do with music? Would any other Country receive the same 12 Points from ::by?
And no, ::ua doesnt have the same Votingpotential. They have only high Diasporas in ::it ::pt ::cz and medium Diasporas in ::ru ::ge ::md and ::by. But at least they are a bit objective and didnt give their weaker entries from 2005/17 tons of blind votes.

But as said, the unfair Advantage for ::ru was only my second problem with ::kz.


Your argument looks randomly built.
Funny how you can be so sure about all these points.
Everyone assumed Azerbaijan would be top 5 forever until 2014, now no one complains about their results.
Russia is also lucky enough to get so many good results with good singers. They not only get good results from televoting, but also from juries too.
Success is no coincidence.

Also, your assumption with Ukrainian diaspora is so random.
Just check which countries they get most points from, and also those from Russia.
They are same countries more or less.
Portugal, Italy and Czech Republic is out of top 5 countries voting for them.
Never heard of Ukrainian diaspora in these countries, let alone calling them high compared to ::ru ::ge ::md and ::by being medium :D :D

Realest
22nd December 2017, 22:01
Your argument looks randomly built.
Funny how you can be so sure about all these points.
Everyone assumed Azerbaijan would be top 5 forever until 2014, now no one complains about their results.
Russia is also lucky enough to get so many good results with good singers. They not only get good results from televoting, but also from juries too.
Success is no coincidence.

Also, your assumption with Ukrainian diaspora is so random.
Just check which countries they get most points from, and also those from Russia.
They are same countries more or less.
Portugal, Italy and Czech Republic is out of top 5 countries voting for them.
Never heard of Ukrainian diaspora in these countries, let alone calling them high compared to ::ru ::ge ::md and ::by being medium :D :D

Look, there is no Country in the world who gives ::ua a safe 10-12 nomatter what they send, but you see that there are some countries who give ::ru guaranted 10-12 nomatter what they send, like 04/05/10 and 14 proved. I mean I dont complain that sergey got all the 12s from there neighbours. The fact that also lots of non-diaspora-housing countries gave him 8-10 (apparently) proves the highquality of the Song.

And I dont know who said that with the guaranteed Top5 for ::az.. All the Top5 Rankings were because of the highquality of their entries plus a little bit Cheating of course ;)
As far as im informed there is only a big azeri Diaspora in ::ru ::ge and ::md and im not sure if ::cz also houses an azeri Diaspora (I couldnt find anything out about this) or if they still cheat there...But I dont know what this has to do with the actual Theme..

And yes, im right with ukrainian Diaspora.
2009 ukraine got 8 TVs from portugal and czech Rep. but only 5 from belarus and moldova and 0 from Russia.
2017 it was 7 from italy and czech and only 4 from georgia and 1 from belarus and 0 from moldova ;) ;) ;)
But also that is offtopic tbh.

EscTurkey
22nd December 2017, 22:27
Look, there is no Country in the world who gives ::ua a safe 10-12 nomatter what they send, but you see that there are some countries who give ::ru guaranted 10-12 nomatter what they send, like 04/05/10 and 14 proved. I mean I dont complain that sergey got all the 12s from there neighbours. The fact that also lots of non-diaspora-housing countries gave him 8-10 (apparently) proves the highquality of the Song.

And I dont know who said that with the guaranteed Top5 for ::az.. All the Top5 Rankings were because of the highquality of their entries plus a little bit Cheating of course ;)
As far as im informed there is only a big azeri Diaspora in ::ru ::ge and ::md and im not sure if ::cz also houses an azeri Diaspora (I couldnt find anything out about this) or if they still cheat there...But I dont know what this has to do with the actual Theme..

And yes, im right with ukrainian Diaspora.
2009 ukraine got 8 TVs from portugal and czech Rep. but only 5 from belarus and moldova and 0 from Russia.
2017 it was 7 from italy and czech and only 4 from georgia and 1 from belarus and 0 from moldova ;) ;) ;)
But also that is offtopic tbh.

It's not all about diaspora.
It's also about good political relations and on top of that CULTURAL background.
As a Turkish person I am more likely to be fond of Greek, Bulgarian, Armenian and Azerbaijani songs. It's no surprise.
I don't think lower than 1% Ukrainian diaspora helps it get points from these countries.
Next time I won't even bother watching Eurovision voting, you can just tell us the results beforehand with your excellent mathematic skills. :D

Realest
22nd December 2017, 22:38
As a Turkish person I am more likely to be fond of Greek, Bulgarian, Armenian and Azerbaijani songs. It's no surprise.


Thats why I f.e. never complain when Ex-Yugos give their Neighbours 8-12 Points when they bring Songs who are representative for their Musicculture, like in 2007.
But in 2016 when Serbia sent an unknown Singer with a westernized, english-languaged Rockballad and received every single possible 12 Points from EX-yugoslavia without representing the common musicculture, it is a really bad joke. And the Same is with Russia. Usually they import their songs from Greece or Sweden and still receive those unfair 12 Points nomatter what. And this has nothing to do with music but (Geo-)Politics. In 2009 and 12 f.e. it was understandable since the Songs have actually somethingt o do with Russia.

Gera11
22nd December 2017, 23:08
Yasssss finally we'll have ::kz xcheer Their music is super hot, hopefully they won't go on an ::az route with foreign composers and relatively safe entries

Sean
23rd December 2017, 00:21
Is this Channel 31 even an associate member? So far only Khabar TV is from my understanding, and EBU blocked them so far so I take these "news" with a grain of salt.

From what I understand they are the first broadcaster in Kazakhstan to officially submit an application to the EBU for full membership. Some sites are falsely reporting it as a EBU-confirmed debut in 2019 when they are not looking into it until after Christmas...

Here's my interpretation anyway...

http://escunited.com/2017/12/22/kazakhstan-negotiations-to-debut-in-eurovision-2019/

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 00:29
Well, the only Juries who vote politically are most of the EX-UDssR Juries. The other ones seemed to be pretty unpolitically imo with a few exceptions.

That's really arguable tbh, and why should "eastern countries" be punished when they put an effort unlike many western countries? Many of the Western/Central countries put no effort and then cried about "unfair voting" and now juries are their to help them out, that's not really a good solution either.

Yes, there was and still is a problem with diaspora voting in ESC (Russia being one of the biggest beneficiaries surely), but I think breaking down the televotes in the past years they are even less biased and predictable than the jury votes are now (apart for some obvious cases) and also why should ::kz be punished because they happen to have a Russian minority?

cegs5
23rd December 2017, 00:33
Well, the only Juries who vote politically are most of the EX-UDssR Juries. The other ones seemed to be pretty unpolitically imo with a few exceptions.

:lol: Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

Realest
23rd December 2017, 01:07
:lol: Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

There was no Anti-Russian Juryvoting towards Sergey, these are only Conspiracies. Juries can give only Points to 10/25 Coutries and give 0 to the Remaining. So it is not politically to give 0 Points to Russia. 75% gave 0 to ::lv and 90% gave 0 to ::at. for Example. Were they politically too? The only Votes that were politically/friendly regarding Russia were those 12 Points from ::by ::az ::gr ::cy.

Maybe you remember 2013 when the Azeri Jury put Dina Bottom5 and prevented her from getting Points despite being 2nd in the Azeri Televote. After that the azeri politician Mamedjarow apologized by the russian Politician Lawrow for the 0 Points. Since then Azeri Juries always put Russia on 1st Place, probably because they were forced to. Also the belarussian Jury randomly celebrates very often Russian Entries, even in 2014 where Russia was faraway from being a Favorite. An Greece And Cyprus only gave their Highpoints because of Dimitris Kontopolos. Also 2014 they gave very huge 8 Points to Russia and 2013 when Azerbaijan worked with him, 12 Points. So, Russia is not the Victim of a political Voting, as tons of butthurt Russians claim, they are the biggest benefitter ;)

And of course Lithuanian and Georgian Juries who put Russia on last place were politically, but then, even if they were objective and put Russia on lets say 16th Place, is would be still 0 Points. Btw the most Political Vote 2016 came from Russia itself, when they gave 12 Points to Iveta for having the "right" nationality, if you remember. Also those 10 Points to Samra who probably hit 3 Tones for every Minute look Suspicious. And Randomly, The gay Singer from Israel was Last and Jamala was Second Last ;) ;) ;)

DaFlo
23rd December 2017, 01:22
Realest truly one special kind of anti russian troll lel

Realest
23rd December 2017, 01:27
That's really arguable tbh, and why should "eastern countries" be punished when they put an effort unlike many western countries? Many of the Western/Central countries put no effort and then cried about "unfair voting" and now juries are their to help them out, that's not really a good solution either.

Yes, there was and still is a problem with diaspora voting in ESC (Russia being one of the biggest beneficiaries surely), but I think breaking down the televotes in the past years they are even less biased and predictable than the jury votes are now (apart for some obvious cases) and also why should ::kz be punished because they happen to have a Russian minority?

I dont say that voting for a neighbour is (always) Political/forbidden. I mean the most Political Votes come from Countries like Armenia and Azerbaijan for hating each other, putting Russia on first Place for Reasons that dont have to do with Music (Rather Political Pressure), or Armenia putting Israel 2ndlast 3 Times in a Row for politically supporting Azerbaijan and not acknowledging the armenian Genozide etc..I cant remember having seen a political Juryvote from western Countries since 2014. But this is clearly not about Discussing if Juries make sense or not. Of Course Russia often Put more effort in their Entries than Central European Non-Block-Countries, but that doesnt change the Fact, that Russia has unfair advantages. This was only a Side-Reason. But as I said the main reason is, that in the past we had always political Troubles with nearly every Ex-UDSSR-Country and thats why I dont want another to have in ESC.

Realest
23rd December 2017, 01:29
Realest truly one special kind of anti russian troll lel

No, im no Anti-Russian Troll. Im neutral.

cegs5
23rd December 2017, 01:38
There was no Anti-Russian Juryvoting towards Sergey, these are only Conspiracies. Juries can give only Points to 10/25 Coutries and give 0 to the Remaining. So it is not politically to give 0 Points to Russia. 75% gave 0 to ::lv and 90% gave 0 to ::at. for Example. Were they politically too? The only Votes that were politically/friendly regarding Russia were those 12 Points from ::by ::az ::gr ::cy.

Maybe you remember 2013 when the Azeri Jury put Dina Bottom5 and prevented her from getting Points despite being 2nd in the Azeri Televote. After that the azeri politician Mamedjarow apologized by the russian Politician Lawrow for the 0 Points. Since then Azeri Juries always put Russia on 1st Place, probably because they were forced to. Also the belarussian Jury randomly celebrates very often Russian Entries, even in 2014 where Russia was faraway from being a Favorite. An Greece And Cyprus only gave their Highpoints because of Dimitris Kontopolos. Also 2014 they gave very huge 8 Points to Russia and 2013 when Azerbaijan worked with him, 12 Points. So, Russia is not the Victim of a political Voting, as tons of butthurt Russians claim, they are the biggest benefitter ;)

And of course Lithuanian and Georgian Juries who put Russia on last place were politically, but then, even if they were objective and put Russia on lets say 16th Place, is would be still 0 Points. Btw the most Political Vote 2016 came from Russia itself, when they gave 12 Points to Iveta for having the "right" nationality, if you remember. Also those 10 Points to Samra who probably hit 3 Tones for every Minute look Suspicious. And Randomly, The gay Singer from Israel was Last and Jamala was Second Last ;) ;) ;)
Wait, all the stories you are mentioning has nothing to do with my post. My point was that political voting doesn't come only from EX USSR countries as you pointed out previously.
So, for you is not political that some countries blanked Sergey as a block in a particular tense year between "western countries" and Russia, with a kind of entry that usually gets a lot of support. OK then :lol:
I never denied that some ex soviet countries and Russia itself have their own stories of political voting as well... I just clarified they are not the only bad boys to tell off.

Realest
23rd December 2017, 01:40
So, for you is not political that some countries blanked Sergey as a block in a particular tense year between "western countries" and Russia, with a kind of entry that usually gets a lot of support. OK then :lol:


Which western Countries do you mean?

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 01:44
I dont say that voting for a neighbour is (always) Political/forbidden. I mean the most Political Votes come from Countries like Armenia and Azerbaijan for hating each other, putting Russia on first Place for Reasons that dont have to do with Music (Rather Political Pressure), or Armenia putting Israel 2ndlast 3 Times in a Row for politically supporting Azerbaijan and not acknowledging the armenian Genozide etc..I cant remember having seen a political Juryvote from western Countries since 2014. But this is clearly not about Discussing if Juries make sense or not. Of Course Russia often Put more effort in their Entries than Central European Non-Block-Countries, but that doesnt change the Fact, that Russia has unfair advantages. This was only a Side-Reason. But as I said the main reason is, that in the past we had always political Troubles with nearly every Ex-UDSSR-Country and thats why I dont want another to have in ESC.

Well, I don't agree that the Western juries are very unbiased, but that's maybe a different discussion, but what you suggest is that a country should be blocked from entering because of potential diaspora voting? I don't really think it's fair, atleast we should give them a try before getting ahead of ourselves. Yes there is a "risk" Russia will end up with 12 in televotes, but other than that I don't see ::kz having that many "conflicts" with various countries as others have in ESC (as you pointed out), so I don't see atleast that kind of bias.

AshleyWright
23rd December 2017, 01:51
It will be hot to see ::kz in esc finally. Hopefully they don't just send safe western ballad/pop songs by Swedish authors and actually show their music.

Also on the point of voting for Russia. Tbh I totally see Realest point, Russian diasporas are notorious for voting for Russia and the one in Kazakhstan is HUGE. Will be annoying that Russias position will be eased even further but I am open to being pleasantly surprised - I don't think this should block them joining esc.

Realest
23rd December 2017, 01:51
Well, I don't agree that the Western juries are very unbiased, but that's maybe a different discussion, but what you suggest is that a country should be blocked from entering because of potential diaspora voting? I don't really think it's fair, atleast we should give them a try before getting ahead of ourselves. Yes there is a "risk" Russia will end up with 12 in televotes, but other than that I don't see ::kz having that many "conflicts" with various countries as others have in ESC (as you pointed out), so I don't see atleast that kind of bias.

As I said, with the Diaspora, this is only a side-effect, but ok, lets see if Kazakhstan is in the Same League as Azerbaijan, Russia, Armenia etc.. regarding the unneccesarily Politisation as I fear.

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 02:03
As I said, with the Diaspora, this is only a side-effect, but ok, lets see if Kazakhstan is in the Same League as Azerbaijan, Russia, Armenia etc.. regarding the unneccesarily Politisation as I fear.

Well, I can see the issue with diaspora voting (the countries that would benefit most from Kazakhstan entering in terms of diaspora votes would be Russia, Ukraine, Belarus followed by Germany and Poland actually), as for political voting there might be a slight risk for Russia and some "cultural points" for Azerbaijan, but this is actually more speculative, atleast Kazakhstan doesn't have much conflicts with other countries as you can see in the Armenia-Azerbaijan case for instance.

Sabiondo
23rd December 2017, 05:13
Well, I can see the issue with diaspora voting (the countries that would benefit most from Kazakhstan entering in terms of diaspora votes would be Russia, Ukraine, Belarus followed by Germany and Poland actually), as for political voting there might be a slight risk for Russia and some "cultural points" for Azerbaijan

+ If ::tr dare to comeback, then they will get 10-8 automatic points from ::kz as they are Turkish brothers culturally! xkiss

GRE
23rd December 2017, 08:12
We all know the points of televoting:
12 to Russia
10 to Azerbaijan
8 to Turkey
7 to Ukraine.

DenizESC
23rd December 2017, 09:52
I say bring them only if they can spice up the contest. No cliche Western ballads pls.

Stiven
23rd December 2017, 09:57
:lol: Tell that to Sergey Lazarev... he was robbed by the "western" juries. Note that I didn't like his entry, but the anti Russian jury voting was pretty obvious imo. Had Sweden sent the same thing, 12s would have been thrown.

As someone who hangs out with actual professional musicians and who talked to them about esc 2016 the general consensus was that they were too soft on him.
Because if my professional acquaintances, friends and family(one of whom was already a juror this year) voted the Macedonian jury ranking would have looked like this:
Juror A:
1- ::ua
...
26-::ru
Juror B:
1- ::ua
...
26-::ru
Juror C:
1- ::ua
...
26-::ru
Juror D:
1- ::ua
...
26-::ru
Juror E:
1- ::au
...
26-::ru
And I'm not making this up ::ru 2016 really was that hated.

DenizESC
23rd December 2017, 10:31
That doesn't look biased AT ALL... :rolleyes:

randajad
23rd December 2017, 10:50
Ew, no.

AlekS
23rd December 2017, 11:19
Well, I can see the issue with diaspora voting (the countries that would benefit most from Kazakhstan entering in terms of diaspora votes would be Russia, Ukraine, Belarus followed by Germany and Poland actually), as for political voting there might be a slight risk for Russia and some "cultural points" for Azerbaijan, but this is actually more speculative, atleast Kazakhstan doesn't have much conflicts with other countries as you can see in the Armenia-Azerbaijan case for instance.
Gaitana and O.Torvald are still wondering about that benefit :rolleyes:

37 points from televoters to Gaitana.
5 points from ex-USSR to O.Torvald 8-) (1pt from Belarus and 4 pts from Georgia - both of them like rock).
2017 only proved that our diaspora doesn't vote for us blindly.

lavieenrose
23rd December 2017, 11:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnHmskwqCCQ

Scooby
23rd December 2017, 14:31
Kazakhstan in Eurovision!
Composers from Sweden like this :lol:

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 17:10
Gaitana and O.Torvald are still wondering about that benefit :rolleyes:

37 points from televoters to Gaitana.
5 points from ex-USSR to O.Torvald 8-) (1pt from Belarus and 4 pts from Georgia - both of them like rock).
2017 only proved that our diaspora doesn't vote for us blindly.

Hmm, didn't know Ukrainian diaspora from Kazakhstan had the opportunity to vote yet? xthink

Of course, I'm not saying all votes are diaspora votes or that diaspora will always vote regardless, but this is just a hypothetical discussion about what countries that may benefit from Kazakhstan entering. However, I don't believe EBU will allow Kazakhstan regardless so there's no worry... so those who don't want Kazakhstan to enter (but are fine that a non-European country from the other side of the globe enters) will probably stay satisfied in the end of the day.

Mrm
23rd December 2017, 17:12
A-lister

Hi dear A-lister! :)
xwave
I hope to agree a lot with you this ESC season, but we wil see. :D

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 17:15
We all know the points of televoting:
12 to Russia
10 to Azerbaijan
8 to Turkey
7 to Ukraine.

I think coming from a country (Greece) that is one of the major beneficiaries of diaspora votes and always give 12's to Cyprus (regardless of the entry) it's kind of hypocritical to point out Kazakhstan...

Anyways, Kazakhstan is closer to European ex-USSR (maybe not so much Ukraine anymore since they are more on Russia's side on things, but still) than they are to Turkey and Azerbaijan, and Turkey is not even taking part so not sure how they could end up getting any points from any country right now? :lol:

Another thing that people turn their blind eye to is that there is also a 2-3% German diaspora in Kazakhstan (biggest diaspora group from ESC countries in Kazakhstan after Russians and Ukrainians), Turks and Azeris don't even make up 1% of the population...

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 17:20
A-lister

Hi dear A-lister! :)
xwave
I hope to agree a lot with you this ESC season, but we wil see. :D

Hey there! Hope all is good? We barely agree on many things ESC related but that's kind of traditions :lol:

Mrm
23rd December 2017, 17:23
Hey there! Hope all is good? We barely agree on many things ESC related but that's kind of traditions :lol:

But we can agree, Belarus 2017 is great! :D

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 17:25
+ If ::tr dare to comeback, then they will get 10-8 automatic points from ::kz as they are Turkish brothers culturally! xkiss

I'd say Kazakhstan is culturally closer to European ex-USSR countries than they are to Turkey, they are very "Russified" and with Erdögan in Turkey, the gap expands further because Turkey is becoming more and more fundamentalist while Kazakhstan sticks to being secular.

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 17:28
But we can agree, Belarus 2017 is great! :D

You liked that one!? I didn't know :)

Realest
23rd December 2017, 18:01
I think coming from a country (Greece) that is one of the major beneficiaries of diaspora votes and always give 12's to Cyprus (regardless of the entry) it's kind of hypocritical to point out Kazakhstan...

Anyways, Kazakhstan is closer to European ex-USSR (maybe not so much Ukraine anymore since they are more on Russia's side on things, but still) than they are to Turkey and Azerbaijan, and Turkey is not even taking part so not sure how they could end up getting any points from any country right now? :lol:

Another thing that people turn their blind eye to is that there is also a 2-3% German diaspora in Kazakhstan (biggest diaspora group from ESC countries in Kazakhstan after Russians and Ukrainians), Turks and Azeris don't even make up 1% of the population...

Well, we dont have an active (blind) Diaspora, even in ::ch and in ::at we have to fight for our Points. Also in ::hu and ::ro Germans are one of the biggest Groups, but they either dont support us Blindly, or are no ESC-Fans (Even Lena 2011 received 0 Points from both of them despite being a Fav). And thats very good as it is. I dont want us to receive blind Points nomatter how good/bad our Entries are. On the other Side if we sometimes get 10-12 from ::at and ::ch (like with St. Raab or Lena) we know that we got them because we deserved them and not for geopolitical Reasons. So im pretty sure that our Diaspora in ::kz also wouldnt support us blindly.

EscGeek
23rd December 2017, 18:15
this thread sure is active for a country that's not participating xwhistle

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 19:13
this thread sure is active for a country that's not participating xwhistle

:lol:

See "Kazakhstan 2018 - Not taking part" thread win as the most active thread of ESC 2018 season :lol:

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 19:15
Well, we dont have an active (blind) Diaspora, even in ::ch and in ::at we have to fight for our Points. Also in ::hu and ::ro Germans are one of the biggest Groups, but they either dont support us Blindly, or are no ESC-Fans (Even Lena 2011 received 0 Points from both of them despite being a Fav). And thats very good as it is. I dont want us to receive blind Points nomatter how good/bad our Entries are. On the other Side if we sometimes get 10-12 from ::at and ::ch (like with St. Raab or Lena) we know that we got them because we deserved them and not for geopolitical Reasons. So im pretty sure that our Diaspora in ::kz also wouldnt support us blindly.

Well, that might be true, and there are other countries aswell which have diaspora that doesn't really help... I just pointed it out as a fact.

GRE
23rd December 2017, 22:51
Channel 31 Kazakhstan has indeed expressed interest in becoming a Member of the EBU and hence participate in the Eurovision Song Contest. However, since Channel 31 is outside the European Broadcasting Area and is also not a member of the Council of Europe,
it is not eligible to become an active Member of the EBU.

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 23:03
Channel 31 Kazakhstan has indeed expressed interest in becoming a Member of the EBU and hence participate in the Eurovision Song Contest. However, since Channel 31 is outside the European Broadcasting Area and is also not a member of the Council of Europe,
it is not eligible to become an active Member of the EBU.

Yeah because Australia is within the broadcasting area and member of Council of Europe :lol:

But yeah, like I expected, EBU treat different countries differently...

Also this broadcasting area is a joke tbh... clearly has not been updated for decades, Syria can technically enter but a country like Kazakhstan that is partly within the European continent cannot....

Sean
23rd December 2017, 23:41
Yeah because Australia is within the broadcasting area and member of Council of Europe :lol:

But yeah, like I expected, EBU treat different countries differently...

Also this broadcasting area is a joke tbh... clearly has not been updated for decades, Syria can technically enter but a country like Kazakhstan that is partly within the European continent cannot....

The statement also goes on to say that associate members need to be invited to join Eurovision... there's no money in inviting Kazakhstan (unless they make it worth their while), whereas Australia... $$$

A-lister
23rd December 2017, 23:55
The statement also goes on to say that associate members need to be invited to join Eurovision... there's no money in inviting Kazakhstan (unless they make it worth their while), whereas Australia... $$$

I don't think it's too hard to find some cash in a country which exports oil and gas as their main income source and has a GDP/cap almost $10.000 higher than Azerbaijan for instance (and we all know the latter has been pretty good with convincing EBU with their cash in certain situations)...

Australia is a rich country, but it doesn't function the same way as ::kz or ::az does so it's not like the Australian state would put some extra cash into the game, it mostly depends on the broadcaster's economy, wheres with some other countries cash clearly flows from other sources aswell... letting Australia in might be partly about cash but also about culture and politics, blocking Kazakhstan however is clearly a matter of culture and politics, not so much about cash...

Realest
24th December 2017, 13:15
http://wiwibloggs.com/2017/12/23/ebu-clarifies-participation-kazakhstan-eurovision/205449/


Channel 31 Kazakhstan has indeed expressed interest in becoming a Member of the EBU and hence participate in the Eurovision Song Contest.
However, since Channel 31 is outside the European Broadcasting Area and is also not a member of the Council of Europe, it is not eligible to become an active Member of the EBU.

.

AlekS
12th January 2018, 22:39
https://tengrinews.kz/music/kazahstan-planiruet-prinyat-uchastie-v-Eurovision-Asia-2018-335235/

Khabar wanted to take part in ESC 2018 but they were denied by the EBU bosses.

A-lister
13th January 2018, 12:47
https://tengrinews.kz/music/kazahstan-planiruet-prinyat-uchastie-v-Eurovision-Asia-2018-335235/

Khabar wanted to take part in ESC 2018 but they were denied by the EBU bosses.

Is anyone surprised by now?

Australia = On the other side of the globe, as far as the European Broadcasting Area as one can get almost, but according to EBU bosses "culturally, politically, linguistically and financially acceptable", coup'ed in as a permanent member after a false "one time thing only" and constantly overhyped by the juries to force the idea down everyone's throats that they are legit with manipulated good results year after year.

Kazakhstan = Partly within the European continent and direct neighbor to the European Broadcasting Area (if EBU actually updated the definition of this area to fit with today's technical possibilities it would certainly be within the area already), associate member and broadcasted the contest for like a decade or so = Not ok because wrong "culturally, politically, linguistically"...

So much for "all aboard" and diversity nonsense slogans...

Realest
13th January 2018, 13:21
This Article (http://blog.prinz.de/grand-prix/ebu-sollte-kasachstan-die-tur-weisen/) summarizes (unfortunately in german) very good, why we dont need ::kz too.

JamieBrown
13th January 2018, 14:01
For those who scandalously don't speak any german NONO

Article says that a broadcasting organisation, shouldn't deal with countries where the media is in any way opressed by the governmental organisations. That's at least a point.

Source is from 2012 tho

AdelAdel
13th January 2018, 14:06
EBU has no right to say anything about culture and political oppression if they're perfectly happy with having Azerbaijan and Armenia in the contest. I doubt that Kazakhstan is less "European" than Azerbaijan is.

A-lister
13th January 2018, 14:34
For those who scandalously don't speak any german NONO

Article says that a broadcasting organisation, shouldn't deal with countries where the media is in any way opressed by the governmental organisations. That's at least a point.

Source is from 2012 tho

So that's why ::by, ::ru, ::tr, ::az (four countries with practically no free media) ::se, ::de, ::pl (three examples of pseudo democracies) and others are allowed? :lol:

Realest
13th January 2018, 14:45
The most important Part is this one (according to Google Translate):


Democratic rights are severely restricted, freedom of assembly is handled very restrictively. The suppression of civil society and political opponents as well as the disregard of the freedom of the press have increased dramatically in recent years, as has the amalgamation of justice and politics, according to the Bertelsmann report.




There is another reason why the EBU should not take Kazakhstan any better. She would go to Azerbaijan to get another questionable country on democracy and human rights issues. The EBU has enough to do with the regime in Baku. For weeks, the EBU wrestles with an attitude in dealing with authoritarian ruled member countries, as reported recently SPIEGEL ONLINE. How should one keep it with the TV stations of states that trample on freedom of expression and in which free media are not valid?


I still dont see the added Value in a Participation of ::kz

A-lister
13th January 2018, 14:56
The most important Part is this one (according to Google Translate):

I still dont see the added Value in a Participation of ::kz

Well, if EBU are serious with their supposedly profound "love" for democracy, how come they have been begging on their knees for Turkey to comeback? How come they are licking Russia constantly? And what about Belarus and Azerbaijan, other examples of "open and free societies"... so much hypocrisy and the fact people still to this day believe what EBU say is beyond me :lol:

Realest
13th January 2018, 15:02
Well, if EBU are serious with their supposedly profound "love" for democracy, how come they have been begging on their knees for Turkey to comeback? How come they are licking Russia constantly? And what about Belarus and Azerbaijan, other examples of "open and free societies"... so much hypocrisy and the fact people still to this day believe what EBU say is beyond me :lol:

I also think EBU should get rid of ::ru ::by and ::az. But once theyre in, its hard to get them out. Probably thats why they dont even allow ::kz to enter. But EBU became a Joke, so who wonders? And ::ru is of course licked because of Money.

A-lister
13th January 2018, 15:06
I also think EBU should get rid of ::ru ::by and ::az. But once theyre in, its hard to get them out. Probably thats why they dont even allow ::kz to enter. But EBU became a Joke, so who wonders? And ::ru is of course licked because of Money.

I think there are many other countries in Europe that have questionable democracies, those are just more "obvious" cases but for sure neither ::de and ::se are spotless democracies by any means...

The problem is that if EBU use "democracy" as an argument for blocking ::kz and in the meantime are begging on their knees to bring back ::tr it's just laughable...

EBU doesn't care about democracy or corruption, so this is more that ::kz doesn't fit their vision for ESC (= The Voice of Europe in English with additional English speaking countries to the mix).

Sabiondo
13th January 2018, 23:07
https://tengrinews.kz/music/kazahstan-planiruet-prinyat-uchastie-v-Eurovision-Asia-2018-335235/

But if EBU is ''supposed'' to be open to Associate members to take part, then they should allow ::kz to take part at ESC too, but is clear that they only care in the most ''Western'' and ''Democratic'' countries outside of Europe who don't meet the Council of Europe criteria membership but are too white to be considered Europeans to let in, like Trump saying that he prefer ::no immigrants in the ::us than people from Latin America and Africa inserted . :lol: