PDA

View Full Version : Latin America in Eurovision (or Wordvision)



Sabiondo
1st May 2015, 22:06
Do you thing that the Latin American countries (20 countries) may can join in Eurovision in the future..? I know that we aren't EBU area, but as Australia most likely will be locked competing for ever at ESC, ¿Will the Latin countries (like the mie - Venezuela) follow the Aussies steps and competing in Eurovision (or Wordvision)?.

After all like USA, we can watch the contest at 2 pm or 3 pm (A very comfortable time for us), but not early in the morning like Australia have to do. Besides of that, the Latinos we have many reasons to join in ESC or Worldvision because we are linked by Europe for more than 500 years and we have a better musical scene than ::es and ::pt speaking

Chile, Brazil and Cuba are EBU associated members and maybe one of one wil join at Song Contest in the future. 8-)

http://lac.wkfworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/america-latina.gif

What you think..? :mrgreen:

MyHeartIsYours
1st May 2015, 23:37
No, and I dont want them to.

Sabiondo
2nd May 2015, 00:05
No, and I dont want them to.

Sorry, but this show how racist that you are. The Latinos has every right to participate in Eurovision as your Commonwealth Australia has, and we have some advantages that don't have if ever join on ESC or WVS.

MyHeartIsYours
2nd May 2015, 00:20
Sorry, but this show how racist that you are. The Latinos has every right to participate in Eurovision as your Commonwealth Australia has, and we have some advantages that don't have if ever join on ESC or WVS.
It's racist not to want Latin America in Eurovision? :lol:

I've always said that I want Eurovision for Europe and "Europeans". So the Falkland Islands participating as part of the United Kingdom, and French Guinea as part of France, yes they're fine, but I dont believe that the rest of South and Central America fits that specific criteria, so it's a no from me personally. I dont want Eurovision to change into Worldvision either. If there is to be a Worldvision, Im all for that, but it should be a separate competition. That is where Latin America could participate.

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 01:05
Why not :)
I wouldn't mind Mexico, Brazil and Argentina to begin with.
But sing either in Spanish or in Portuguese, no English please :mrgreen: (apart from Guyana)

GRE
2nd May 2015, 01:06
Well, Australia broadcasts the contest for 30 years.
Kazakstan also is interested many years now.
Canada broadcasts the contest few years now.
But the countries from Latin America are not interested at all,
so at the moment i don't think there is realistic basis in the question.

popavapeur
2nd May 2015, 01:40
i don't really mind. I like the contest for the competition thing and more contestants makes it more exciting in my pov. The actual worst countries will stay bad and the good ones will have to make some effort to keep their heads up in the game. Btw even for Australia, if they have to win, i'd like the contest to be hold in the country but with one rule : europe's time. So if we have to go in Sydney, the show will be in the morning there but at 21-20h here.

The only little thing i don't like about "foreign countries" is that i feel ESC like a sort of.. you know, family thing, we're between us, huge audience but not that wide. We're already a lot of countries but just what it's needed to not feel too big. I don't want the contest to be an olympic games of music, i like its "family" side. (Olympics games of music sounds pretty good to my ears at the same time imo :D)

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 01:59
The only little thing i don't like about "foreign countries" is that i feel ESC like a sort of.. you know, family thing, we're between us, huge audience but not that wide. We're already a lot of countries but just what it's needed to not feel too big. I don't want the contest to be an olympic games of music, i like its "family" side. (Olympics games of music sounds pretty good to my ears at the same time imo :D)

This was true until this year. I had the same "family feeling" but, what can you do? If Australia is allowed to take part, so can the rest of the world. This was really the Pandora's box imo

Sabiondo
2nd May 2015, 02:42
It's racist not to want Latin America in Eurovision? :lol:

I've always said that I want Eurovision for Europe and "Europeans". So the Falkland Islands participating as part of the United Kingdom, and French Guinea as part of France, yes they're fine, but I dont believe that the rest of South and Central America fits that specific criteria, so it's a no from me personally. I dont want Eurovision to change into Worldvision either. If there is to be a Worldvision, Im all for that, but it should be a separate competition. That is where Latin America could participate.

But Australia isn't European at all in my eyes (Except by their European origin population & because it was colonized by your country), and if they will came to stay in EUROvision, why not the Latin countries too (Who we more close geographically to Europe than Australia)..?

Its fair since we have a close relationship with Spain (Our Motherland), Portugal and Italy, and Eurovision its telecast every year by their channels (TVE & RTP International) early in the Afternoon here in America. Also as i said before, Chile, Brazil and Cuba are non asociated EBU memnbers like ::au, and i don't thing that EBU will refuse an petition from us to participate in any of both contest as guest, cause that i'm almost sure that will get support from ::es, ::pt and some European countries..

Sabiondo
2nd May 2015, 02:59
But the countries from Latin America are not interested at all,
so at the moment i don't think there is realistic basis in the question.

Australia was watching ESC through BBC for over 20 years (From 1983 until 2003), then SBS began broadcasting the contest alone and in 2008 sent his first commentators

But TVE & RTP has almost 20 years telecasting live the contest for all Latin American countries via tv Cable, and many people awaits every Saturday afternoon to watch Eurovision for cheering the Spanish, Portuguese and now Italian songs (Our biggest European diaspora population living here), and even we have a precedent in 1979 with the Peruvian born, Betty Missiego.

I know that almost none of our public tv Channels are interested to take part yet, but will be a matter of time that with the flourishing ESC interest here, one of them applies as EBU non associated member and send their own commentators as ::au did.

Carrie
2nd May 2015, 03:22
Australia is a one off. I don't want Argentina on the ESC stage, thank you.

MyHeartIsYours
2nd May 2015, 03:34
But Australia isn't European at all in my eyes (Except by their European origin population & because it was colonized by your country), and if they will came to stay in EUROvision, why not the Latin countries too (Who we more close geographically to Europe than Australia)..?

Its fair since we have a close relationship with Spain (Our Motherland), Portugal and Italy, and Eurovision its telecast every year by their channels (TVE & RTP International) early in the Afternoon here in America. Also as i said before, Chile, Brazil and Cuba are non asociated EBU memnbers like ::au, and i don't thing that EBU will refuse an petition from us to participate in any of both contest as guest, cause that i'm almost sure that will get support from ::es, ::pt and some European countries..
There are four countries in the world which can be termed "European" but, that are actually well away from the continent - Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. If they ever got independence, you can add Quebec and Greenland to those two as well.

You're right that most Aussies can trace their origins back to Britain, and the vast majority of those who cant can instead do the same to Ireland and Italy. But for me it's more about cultural relations. There is very little cultural difference between Australia and Europe (in particular Britain and Ireland), whereas Latin America has always been a fusion of Spanish/Portuguese culture and Ameridian culture. Latin American culture has become very distinct from Spain/Portugal, whereas Australian culture - though with its many quirks - is broadly the same as any other culture in the Anglosphere. If there was a country which had an incredibly similar cultural identity to Spain, then I would support it joining Eurovision. But I dont believe there is.

There is international backing for this view too. Here are the regions of the world, as defined by the United Nations:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/UN_regional_groups.svg/400px-UN_regional_groups.svg.png

Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada and Greenland are all grouped with Western Europe, whereas Latin America is clearly divided from Latin Europe.

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 03:45
MyHeartIsYours

I don't see anything in this map that prevents South America from participating like Australia: Morocco is in blue, Israel is in green and Russia/Eastern European countries are all red. All of these have took part at least once and have ties with Europe some way or another. If blue, red and green is ok, then pink shouldn't be an issue :lol:

MyHeartIsYours
2nd May 2015, 04:01
MyHeartIsYours

I don't see anything in this map that prevents South America from participating like Australia: Morocco is in blue, Israel is in green and Russia/Eastern European countries are all red. All of these have took part at least once and have ties with Europe some way or another. If blue, red and green is ok, then pink shouldn't be an issue :lol:
- Eastern Europe is just as much "Europe" as Western Europe.
- Morocco and Israel are full members of the EBU and so have the right to participate (but actually Israel is considered to be part of the Western European region anyway).

We are talking about countries which arent full EBU members and are outside the European continent here.

Sabiondo
2nd May 2015, 05:07
There are four countries in the world which can be termed "European" but, that are actually well away from the continent - Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. If they ever got independence, you can add Quebec and Greenland to those two as well.

You're right that most Aussies can trace their origins back to Britain, and the vast majority of those who cant can instead do the same to Ireland and Italy. But for me it's more about cultural relations. There is very little cultural difference between Australia and Europe (in particular Britain and Ireland), whereas Latin America has always been a fusion of Spanish/Portuguese culture and Ameridian culture. Latin American culture has become very distinct from Spain/Portugal, whereas Australian culture - though with its many quirks - is broadly the same as any other culture in the Anglosphere. If there was a country which had an incredibly similar cultural identity to Spain, then I would support it joining Eurovision. But I dont believe there is.

There is international backing for this view too. Here are the regions of the world, as defined by the United Nations:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/UN_regional_groups.svg/400px-UN_regional_groups.svg.png

Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada and Greenland are all grouped with Western Europe, whereas Latin America is clearly divided from Latin Europe.

This a bullshit argument yours and i won't buy it. Spain & Portugal always have a close cultural identity to Latin America and its seems that you don't have any idea about it. We are not too distinct to Spanish/Portuguese except our different customs due the remoteness of our ancient metropolis. But some countries like Mexico, Argentina and Uruguay have similarities with the Spanish culture and their language.

The UN group map does not make any distinction on EUROvision than Geographic Location! :p

MyHeartIsYours
2nd May 2015, 05:30
This a bullshit argument yours and i won't buy it. Spain & Portugal always have a close cultural identity to Latin America and its seems that you don't have any idea about it. We are not too distinct to Spanish/Portuguese except our different customs due the remoteness of our ancient metropolis. But some countries like Mexico, Argentina and Uruguay have similarities with the Spanish culture and their language.

The UN group map does not make any distinction on EUROvision than Geographic Location! :p
May I ask why you bothered to make a thread if you refer to alternative ideas to yours as "bullshit arguments"? I thought the very idea of a thread was for people to give their varying opinions, not just agree with you...

I never said that Latin America doesnt have similarities with Spain and Portugal, but those similarities have become too weak over time to warrant inclusion in a European contest.

Marcos
2nd May 2015, 07:22
There are four countries in the world which can be termed "European" but, that are actually well away from the continent - Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. If they ever got independence, you can add Quebec and Greenland to those two as well.

You're right that most Aussies can trace their origins back to Britain, and the vast majority of those who cant can instead do the same to Ireland and Italy. But for me it's more about cultural relations. There is very little cultural difference between Australia and Europe (in particular Britain and Ireland), whereas Latin America has always been a fusion of Spanish/Portuguese culture and Ameridian culture. Latin American culture has become very distinct from Spain/Portugal, whereas Australian culture - though with its many quirks - is broadly the same as any other culture in the Anglosphere. If there was a country which had an incredibly similar cultural identity to Spain, then I would support it joining Eurovision. But I dont believe there is.

There is international backing for this view too. Here are the regions of the world, as defined by the United Nations:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/UN_regional_groups.svg/400px-UN_regional_groups.svg.png

Australia, New Zealand, the United States, Canada and Greenland are all grouped with Western Europe, whereas Latin America is clearly divided from Latin Europe.

Turkey, Western European? WE did it boys.

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 13:03
Turkey, Western European? WE did it boys.

See? :lol:, I fail to see obvious culture similarities between Australia, Turkey and Finland, but whatever!


- Eastern Europe is just as much "Europe" as Western Europe.
- Morocco and Israel are full members of the EBU and so have the right to participate (but actually Israel is considered to be part of the Western European region anyway).

We are talking about countries which arent full EBU members and are outside the European continent here.

Yes, that's why I meant, this map isn't really appropriate when it comes to Eurovision.
Australia is an associated member of the EBU and is outside the European continent, and so are Brazil, Chile and Cuba in Latin America.
I've read somewhere on the forum one of their spokesperson already noticed Canada, China and South Africa's interest in the contest and tried to know what to do with them in the future, so provided there is some interest in other associated members, everything's possible now.

By the way, Georgia is not even a full EBU member, I didn't know that :o

GRE
2nd May 2015, 13:10
Australia was watching ESC through BBC for over 20 years (From 1983 until 2003), then SBS began broadcasting the contest alone and in 2008 sent his first commentators

But TVE & RTP has almost 20 years telecasting live the contest for all Latin American countries via tv Cable, and many people awaits every Saturday afternoon to watch Eurovision for cheering the Spanish, Portuguese and now Italian songs (Our biggest European diaspora population living here), and even we have a precedent in 1979 with the Peruvian born, Betty Missiego.

I know that almost none of our public tv Channels are interested to take part yet, but will be a matter of time that with the flourishing ESC interest here, one of them applies as EBU non associated member and send their own commentators as ::au did.

So, if any latin country is interested, it's ok for me, as guest country at the moment.
My opinion for Eurovision the upcoming years is to accept each year one guest country from the rest of the world.
This year Australia, next year Canada or Kazakstan? So why not latin american countries :)

GRE
2nd May 2015, 13:12
Some people can't undestand that in the same way Australia-New Zealand-Canada-USA are connected with UK,
Latin American countries are connected with Spain & Portugal.

popavapeur
2nd May 2015, 13:31
This was true until this year. I had the same "family feeling" but, what can you do? If Australia is allowed to take part, so can the rest of the world. This was really the Pandora's box imo

i really don't feel the pandora's box thing. Australia is -for me, sorry aussies if you think i'm wrong- a big lost Island between countries and micro-countries who don't really have a link with them (except NZ) i don't have a clue about what's going on in Australia right now instead of China or USA even Brazil. The country could be big in size, it's little on an international level for me. Like Little as many others europeans countries taking part. I never felt that australia is so different than the western countries, that's just the young brother/sister who is living far away. Having Australia still make me feel the family thing : they watched the show before, there's nothing new with them except a contestant. Yes because they aren't in the EBU so everybody can join, but no because i don't know another country involved as much as Australia in the contest.

cegs5
2nd May 2015, 14:01
whatever

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 14:10
Yes because they aren't in the EBU so everybody can join, but no because i don't know another country involved as much as Australia in the contest.

Ok, so provided you express some interest, you're legitimate enough to take part? It's not a coincidence if an EBU spokesperson was trying to know what to do with Canada, China and South Africa as they somehow seem to be interested in Eurovision too.

Let's make it clear :lol: I have nothing against Australia, but I like consistency: if they can, why others couldn't? The EBU knew how to overlook member statuses and geographic criterion to let them in, so that's not even an ethical issue :lol:

popavapeur
2nd May 2015, 18:49
tuorem
i mean there's a slight difference between Australia and China. We all know that Australia watch the show since years (how about China?) we know that since 2007-08 they send commentators on a major tv channel (and i still don't know about China or others countries) and there's a big fan base in Australia.
I don't say there's no fan in China or latin america just if it does exist, i'm not aware of these countries sending commentators, ESC parties in their countries or whatever and i don't know for how long they watch and like the show. (BTW i don't even know if ESC is that huge in Australia but it seems it does if we look at how the host likes to send a hello each year to aussies).

So the things is, if the ESC is popular as it is in Australia (and involved as Australia) i won't say no for a participation. Not just "showing interest" (it take years if you look at how long Australia watch the show)

tuorem
2nd May 2015, 19:18
popavapeur
It's difficult to say, China broadcasts the contest (and so does Canada) and there are probably a bunch of fans there since they've been doing their own ranking for a few years now.
I'm not saying there is the same level of enthusiasm in this country, that would be a lie since I guess most people aren't aware of this event. However, if someday they happened to be willing to take part, I think one should welcome them the same way as Australia if interest is the only thing that counts now.

If Australia didn't participate before, I assume it's because the EBU didn't consider this possibility. I still believe it creates a precedent and for that matter, I'd find it difficult to say no to "extra" countries from now on.

Sabiondo
2nd May 2015, 20:50
tuorem

I don't say there's no fan in China or latin america just if it does exist, i'm not aware of these countries sending commentators, ESC parties in their countries or whatever and i don't know for how long they watch and like the show.

In facebook you can find many Eurovision groups from Latin countries like Argentina (http://https://www.facebook.com/groups/47409106396/?fref=ts), Mexico (https://www.facebook.com/mexico.eurovision?fref=ts), Colombia (https://www.facebook.com/groups/17577731572/?fref=ts), Peru (https://www.facebook.com/groups/ESCPeru/?fref=ts)
and my country group Venezuela (https://www.facebook.com/groups/eurovisionfansclubvenezuela/1085021511512564/?notif_t=group_activity)

Also we are registred like OGAE ROW and we organized Eurovision parties on the final day. As i said before TVE & RTP have almost 20 years telecasting Eurovision for Latin Countries (as well FRTV2 and AVROTROS do for their colonies in the Caribbean sea) and if ::au can join in Eurovision despite their distance (But their money & telecasting history had weight) then the Latin countries like the mie for example can join in ESC in the future, if one of our public TV stations (for example) applies for EBU non associated membership as Australia done and send our own commentators.

After all Eurovision is becoming very popular here in the Latin American countries because the variety of songs, cultures and because we can watch it in a early time than the Aussies or the own European people as well :lol: (for not mention the historical European connection for over 500 years).

If ever join, could do a huge musical contribution to the festival with our Latin Rhythms (Salsa, Merengue, Regeaton, Samba, Cumbia...) to sake European asses as well. :lol:

Krishoes
3rd May 2015, 18:03
Why not, Tv Cultura in ::br and Canal 13 in ::cl are EBU's associate members just like SBS in ::au... :mrgreen:

However, I really don't know how to feel about if Latin Americans nations will join the Eurovision :D

ParadiseES
3rd May 2015, 18:03
Hypocrisy at its best ;)

It's hilarious how most of the people who are so against are British and they seemed to be so happy with Australia joinning (we all know why ;)). And there are even some pseudo-racist comments banning certain countries to take part (like Argentina).

I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)

ParadiseES
3rd May 2015, 18:05
Some people can't undestand that in the same way Australia-New Zealand-Canada-USA are connected with UK,
Latin American countries are connected with Spain & Portugal.

Ignorance ;)

ParadiseES
3rd May 2015, 18:07
There are four countries in the world which can be termed "European" but, that are actually well away from the continent - Australia, New Zealand, the United States and Canada. If they ever got independence, you can add Quebec and Greenland to those two as well.


What makes you European is to be part of Europe, not the colonial past. Otherwise all the colonies should count the same. ::uk is not > everyone else ;)

tuorem
3rd May 2015, 19:01
I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)

Thank you for rewording my thoughts exactly.

MyHeartIsYours
3rd May 2015, 19:16
What makes you European is to be part of Europe, not the colonial past. Otherwise all the colonies should count the same. ::uk is not > everyone else ;)
No because I've specifically singled out four countries that are special cases. If I said yes Jamaica, India and Kenya should participate but not Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, then yes, you would have a valid argument. But I didn't say those three (or any others) should participate because while they have some elements of British (and therefore European) culture, they do not have enough of it to warrant participation in a European contest.

South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States are different because their culture is as much European as any European state (in fact probably even more so given mass immigration into Europe). The only way in which they are not "European" is by their geographic location. I don't believe that to be an argument against their participation however. And as I said, if they ever got independence I would call for Quebec and Greenland to participate too, so it's not just me calling for Anglosphere states as you're trying to make out ;).

ParadiseES
3rd May 2015, 19:20
No because I've specifically singled out four countries that are special cases. If I said yes Jamaica, India and Kenya should participate but not Brazil, Mexico and Argentina, then yes, you would have a valid argument. But I didn't say those three (or any others) should participate because while they have some elements of British (and therefore European) culture, they do not have enough of it to warrant participation in a European contest.

South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States are different because their culture is as much European as any European state (in fact probably even more so given mass immigration into Europe). The only way in which they are not "European" is by their geographic location. I don't believe that to be an argument against their participation however. And as I said, if they ever got independence I would call for Quebec and Greenland to participate too, so it's not just me calling for Anglosphere states as you're trying to make out ;).

1- You prove you know nothing about Latin America (and I'd say about the USA as well).

2- Eurovision is not about cultural ties.

MyHeartIsYours
3rd May 2015, 19:25
1- You prove you know nothing about Latin America (and I'd say about the USA as well).

2- Eurovision is not about cultural ties.
1) The United States - yes I know that is flooded with immigrants but its culture is still exclusively European. Personally I'd rather the Americans didn't participate, but I think they should be able to if they ever wanted to do so. Latin America - if you can prove to me that it is more Spanish/Portuguese culturally than South Africa is Dutch/British, I'm willing to learn and change my mind ;)
2) Then what is it about?

Sabiondo
3rd May 2015, 19:34
Hypocrisy at its best ;)

It's hilarious how most of the people who are so against are British and they seemed to be so happy with Australia joinning (we all know why ;)). And there are even some pseudo-racist comments banning certain countries to take part (like Argentina).

I don't want them to take part. I want Eurovision to remain as EUROvision. But if Australia is joinning EBU has no reasons to avoid this. That's the mess they did. And rejecting them to take part has a name ;)

Yeahh some people has double standards when integration comes. If sure that ::uk will want soon to put almost their Commonwealth competing in EUROvision ( or Worldvision) as they believed that have the exclusive right do it.

Sabiondo
3rd May 2015, 19:59
South Africa has a fair bit of Dutch/British culture, about as much as Latin America has Spanish/Portuguese culture. But again I don't call for South African participation because it doesn't have enough European culture. So I will object to Latin American participation too.

aardvark Look this..!!

MyHeartIsYours
3rd May 2015, 20:05
Yeahh some people has double standards when integration comes. If sure that ::uk will want soon to put almost their Commonwealth competing in EUROvision ( or Worldvision) as they believed that have the exclusive right do it.
The Commonwealth has 53 member states, 4 of whom already participate in Eurovision. Im calling for the addition of 2 more - 1 of whom has already participated in a Eurovision contest in the past. Im sure you wont die.


aardvark Look this..!!
I know what you're doing here but it wont work ;) Im sure that aardvark has enough respect for other people's opinions to see that not wanting South Africa to participate is not some sort of slight against his country.

I would still like to know why you bothered creating a thread if you simply want people to agree with you? A thread is supposed to be for people to put their varying opinion's across, not just agree with the author of the original post.

aardvark
3rd May 2015, 22:17
WOW! How easy it is to be drawn into an argument unwittingly!

So, ok, since you asked here are my opinions on the matter:

Personally, I don't have any opinions on allowing more non-European countries in or leaving them out. Let the powers that be decide, and I'll be fine with the decision. I'm willing to go with the flow and enjoy whatever situation presents itself in future. However, I can't see a situation where an unlimited number of countries are allowed to enter, simply because the competition will become too big and unmanageable. Perhaps, if there is enough demand, it would then be a good idea to have a Worldvision competition running parallel to but separately from Eurovision. The problem is that allowing Australia in has opened up a can of worms now, because, as predicted, if one non-European country is allowed, it would be terribly unfair to deny another.

MHYI, this time I'm calling you out. This thing about 4 non-European countries being culturally European and all others not is rubbish. The problem is that where do you draw this imaginary line to decide which countries are European enough, and which are not. It is simply not possible. It is also very unfortunate that you have chosen 4 countries in the British realm as the anointed ones. The influences, ties and general feeling of togetherness between e.g. Argentina and Spain (and Italy) or Brazil and Portugal, I can assure you, are in no means inferior the the 4 countries you have selected. You see the problem really is that there is no way to distinguish which countries are more or less "culturally European." Does a certain percentage of the population have to speak a European language? Because almost all of Latin America speaks Spanish or Portuguese? Does a certain percentage of the population have to be white Europeans? Because that would be plain racist. Do they have to be in the British realm? Exactly how do you measure and determine cultural closeness?

Furthermore, regardless of their assumed cultural similarities NONE of these 4 countries are in fact European, and no amount of wishing, hoping and argumenting will ever convince me otherwise.

And as far as South Africa goes, let me try to explain a few things: One of the nations living in South Africa is the Afrikaners, of which I am a prime example. We derive from Western European settlers (mostly Dutch, German and French) that arrived here between 1652 and about 1820. Our language is Afrikaans, which is derived from Dutch, as it developed and changed on African soil over the course of 350 years. By about 1900 the Dutch language had changed so much that it wasn't Dutch anymore, and the Afrikaans language was finally recognised in the 1920's. The Afrikaners are as lily-white as any European and still follow many European traditions and customs. However, have no illusions, we are an African people, born and bred on African soil. Apart from the Afrikaners, there are also people of British descent, who arrived from about 1800 onwards. They retained their language and culture and in most cases did not "Africanise". Both these groups together form the white/European portion of the South African population, which currently comprise only about 8% of the total South African population. So it should be clear from this that while there are some people with European customs/ties in South Africa, we are an African country by definition.

As for possible future South African participation in Eurovision: I'm not sure where these rumors about interest are coming from, but it sounds like somebody has been eating too many herb-flavored cookies. Let me say it loud and clear- IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. Firstly, the amount of Eurovision fans in South Africa are probably between 9 and 11. Close to nobody has ever heard of it. It has never been broadcast in South Africa. (We get Dutch/Portuguese/Italian etc. channels on Satellite TV, and I have watched it there, though.) Furthermore, our government (and the broadcaster, the SABC, as a semi-government institution by implication) absolutely despises anything they deem to be "Eurocentric". They are laboring very hard to promote an "Afrocentric" agenda, and they won't touch anything that is not "Afrocentric" enough. Something like Eurovision will never ever ever be considered. Just think how much pres. Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe hates Europe and the UK, turn it down half a notch, and you have the South African government and their puppet broadcaster. They will rather sleep on a bed of 1000 poisonous snakes than get involved with Eurovision. So you don't have to worry, we will not be joining Eurovision anytime in this century.

ParadiseES
4th May 2015, 00:55
1) The United States - yes I know that is flooded with immigrants but its culture is still exclusively European. Personally I'd rather the Americans didn't participate, but I think they should be able to if they ever wanted to do so. Latin America - if you can prove to me that it is more Spanish/Portuguese culturally than South Africa is Dutch/British, I'm willing to learn and change my mind ;)
2) Then what is it about?

1) The fact that they are rich and developed doesn't make them Europeans.

2) Is is about countries from the same continent sharing their music. No matter if their cultural ties are strong or not.

Jim
4th May 2015, 20:53
Australia is a one off. I don't want Argentina on the ESC stage, thank you.

Why only Argentina? xcrazy

Carrie
4th May 2015, 21:20
Why only Argentina? xcrazy

It was an example. xqueenbitch

cegs5
4th May 2015, 21:48
Some people can't undestand that in the same way Australia-New Zealand-Canada-USA are connected with UK,
Latin American countries are connected with Spain & Portugal.

xyeah

Really, I can't believe how ignorant people can be...it's better read a book before giving some opinions about culture or history.
I want Eurovision in Las Malvinas xwoo

Carrie
4th May 2015, 22:18
xyeah

Really, I can't believe how ignorant people can be...it's better read a book before giving some opinions about culture or history.
I want Eurovision in Las Malvinas xwoo

I'm sure we can make that happen if the UK wins again :)

cegs5
4th May 2015, 22:26
I'm sure we can make that happen if the UK wins again :)

or Australia :mrgreen:

Carrie
4th May 2015, 22:29
or Australia :mrgreen:

Why Australia? :confused::confused:

cegs5
4th May 2015, 22:47
Why Australia? :confused::confused:

Apparently there are many people who want ESC to be held in the UK if Australia wins.

cegs5
4th May 2015, 22:57
How can USA be considered European enough having 54 million latinos, but not Argentina with only 42 million people, most of them with Spanish background, and a huge Italian and German community xcrazy

Sabiondo
5th May 2015, 00:30
How can USA be considered European enough having 54 million latinos, but not Argentina with only 42 million people, most of them with Spanish background, and a huge Italian and German community xcrazy

And not only that, Also Brazil, Venezuela (My country) and Mexico also have a hugeeeee Spanish, Italian, Portuguese even German population background living here. Lastly also the Russian & Belorussian people are coming to live in Latin America too due the growing interest to our lands :p

In Chile, also we have a lot Croats & Serbs living here (Chile could give 8-10 points to Croatia ans Serbia).

So, the Latinos we aren't European ..?? :lol:

cegs5
5th May 2015, 00:43
And not only that, Also Brazil, Venezuela (My country) and Mexico also have a hugeeeee Spanish, Italian, Portuguese even German population background living here. Lastly also the Russian & Belorussian people are coming to live in Latin America too due the growing interest to our lands :p

In Chile, also we have a lot Croats & Serbs living here (Chile could give 8-10 points to Croatia ans Serbia).

So, the Latinos we aren't European ..?? :lol:

Yes, it was just an example, but as Argentina was mentioned I wanted to point that. I could write about Peru as well, having a community of Croats bigger than in Chile even, plus Italians, French and Germans, they even have an entire town in tge countryside under their administration...and not saying more about the Spanish background.
Perhaps MyHeartIsYours think that Peruvians are all still living in Machu Picchu and having llamas instead of Volvo or Mercedes Benz cars, speaking tribal languages, having Inka's surnames and eating insects. Not enough European roots. :lol:

MyHeartIsYours
5th May 2015, 01:51
Clearly this thread is just a wank-fest for lovers of Latin America. Well Im afraid that most people, the EBU and the United Nations all disagree with you and say that Latin America is NOT European, therefore it shall not be participating. Thank you.

cegs5
5th May 2015, 03:09
Clearly this thread is just a wank-fest for lovers of Latin America. Well Im afraid that most people, the EBU and the United Nations all disagree with you and say that Latin America is NOT European, therefore it shall not be participating. Thank you.

:lol: this thread is obviously a sarcastic way to prove the hypocritical arguments of people like you with double standards or just a big ignorance about the world history and culture. You got nothing else to say after we proved you wrong, but assuming that we all want LA countries in ESC, which is not true. I don't want them in as I don't like Australia taking part...EBU can say whatever, it's just my opinion.
You are missing the main point, Australia isn't an European country, neither Argentina. I also have news for you, UN and EBU don't consider Australia as part of Europe, the fact that they accepted them to be in Vienna doesn't make the country European.
Get your facts straight. If you didn't get it, those examples were not written to prove how European LA countries are, but how ridiculous your arguments were.

Carrie
5th May 2015, 21:28
Australia participating is a one off. It is the most loyal non-geographically European country involved in ESC and is therefore being given a treat for the 60th edition. What's the fuss?

cegs5
5th May 2015, 21:48
Australia participating is a one off. It is the most loyal non-geographically European country involved in ESC and is therefore being given a treat for the 60th edition. What's the fuss?

That's a more sincere and actually only explanation that I can accept, besides the fact that some economic reason might have been on the table as well; but telling how "more European" some countries are and thus they are very welcome because of that doesn't really help, because it's only bullshit.

Guilep
7th May 2015, 00:04
I would be really happy if this happens tbh, but sadly, at least my country, does not show any interest for international music competitions. We won Festival OTI de la Canción 3 times, but nobody here knows about it, so why would somebody care for something they're not even participating?

ParadiseES
7th May 2015, 01:27
We won Festival OTI de la Canción 3 times

Oh, that crap :lol:

ParadiseES
7th May 2015, 01:29
Clearly this thread is just a wank-fest for lovers of Latin America. Well Im afraid that most people, the EBU and the United Nations all disagree with you and say that Latin America is NOT European, therefore it shall not be participating. Thank you.

Yeah, obviously. But you don't need to disturb the EBU or United Nations for that. You just have to look at the globe. Same for Australia :rolleyes:

cegs5
7th May 2015, 01:30
Festival OTITIS xsleep

Franco
9th May 2015, 15:57
I say: let them IN! xcheer
In South America the show would be aired at 15:00 - 17:00 local time, thus it's even easier to watch there than in Australia, where it's aired at 4:00 - 6:00. So, why not? It's all gain and no pain.

LoveHate
11th May 2015, 15:20
Then it's not really Eurovision anymore. I'm not too crazy about Australia either, and I hope it's just a one time thing (unless they win and come back for one more year).

Israel, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia etc. can be questioned as well, but I guess they're close enough. The problem is you can always go just a little bit further.

Sabiondo
23rd May 2015, 02:45
So, first Australia, now China, and then could be our turn as well..? :D

Milos-BC
23rd May 2015, 11:44
It was obvious this will be happening as soon as it was announced that Australia will enter this year.


I personally encourage this, but ONLY if the format of the contest changes and if it becomes Worldvision, as it is logical.

Fluke
23rd May 2015, 18:55
Didn't Cuba actually make an attempt in the 80s? I remember hearing about it but it might have been a joke....

Sabiondo
27th May 2015, 22:05
The ESC Brazilians fans just was launch a petition to their EBU Asociated Channel - Tv Cultura, to brodocast Eurovision the next year as well.

http://www.peticaopublica.com.br/pview.aspx?pi=BR82158

Sabiondo
7th October 2015, 14:04
So, its ovious that EBU will leave ::au locked for ever in Eurovision, so why not the American countries can do the same? we have every right like them!!

Stiven
7th October 2015, 22:23
So, its ovious that EBU will leave ::au locked for ever in Eurovision, so why not the American countries can do the same? we have every right like them!!

I don't want to sound like a jerk but according to my knowledge none of the national broadcasters of Latin America have tried to enter or even broadcast Eurovision while SBS have been broadcasting it sine 1983 and have been lobbying since 2010 to participate so their effort paid off. Also Jan Ola Sand did clearly said that he is against inviting countries with low viewership so you have that going against you.

Sabiondo
8th October 2015, 01:35
I don't want to sound like a jerk but according to my knowledge none of the national broadcasters of Latin America have tried to enter or even broadcast Eurovision while SBS have been broadcasting it sine 1983 and have been lobbying since 2010 to participate so their effort paid off. Also Jan Ola Sand did clearly said that he is against inviting countries with low viewership so you have that going against you.

SBS start to Broadcast it from 2003 far i know (and before of that 20 years telecasting by BBC in Australia), but Eurovision also is telecasted here in Latin America from 24 years to today, thanks by TVE International & RTP International.

Australia started to send their own comments from 2009 as well. Eurovision is really increasing her popularity in Latin America due our highly Spanish, Portuguese and Italian diaspora living here (For not mention about French, German and others Europeans minorities living here) and you really don't know anything about it. I know that none of of the Latin members associated in the EBU (Brazil, Cuba and Chile) hasn't broadcast the contest live, but as Australia will be a permanent figure then will encourage others non European countries to send their own comments for ESC as well. Also the timezone isn't a problem unlike Australia because we watch the contest in the Saturday afternoon the Aussies need wake up to 5 am of Sunday for watch it, so??

ZoboCamel
13th October 2015, 11:45
SBS start to Broadcast it from 2003 far i know (and before of that 20 years telecasting by BBC in Australia), but Eurovision also is telecasted here in Latin America from 24 years to today, thanks by TVE International & RTP International.

You're a little bit off there - SBS has broadcasted Eurovision here since 1983, so there's a bit more history to it than you might think. BBC isn't a channel here anyway, so they couldn't have broadcasted it here even if they wanted to! 2003 was the first time we had our own commentators attending the event, though (with the exception of a failed attempt in 2001), so that's probably what you're thinking of.

Sabiondo
14th October 2015, 16:50
You're a little bit off there - SBS has broadcasted Eurovision here since 1983, so there's a bit more history to it than you might think. BBC isn't a channel here anyway, so they couldn't have broadcasted it here even if they wanted to! 2003 was the first time we had our own commentators attending the event, though (with the exception of a failed attempt in 2001), so that's probably what you're thinking of.

Well my other Australian friend told me that the ESC in your country was telecasted via BBC World (He discover Eurovision in that channel) for many years before that SBS send their own commentators to ESC 2009 in Moscow, but thank you very much for the clarification!! :D

ZoboCamel
14th October 2015, 16:58
Well my other Australian friend told me that the ESC in your country was telecasted via BBC World (He discover Eurovision in that channel) for many years before that SBS send their own commentators to ESC 2009 in Moscow, but thank you very much for the clarification!! :D

Huh... I've never actually heard of BBC World. Perhaps it's part of cable TV, which I don't have? It could have been hosted on both SBS and BBC World, in that case (though SBS probably still came earlier, I think).